Have you ever become frustrated on the golf course because of your inability to stop the ball on the green? There can be many factors that cause this, all of which contribute to your ball rolling off the back of a green.
Rual Anderson is facing this issue with his wedges. He's unable to stop the ball with a sand, lob, and pitching wedge, but his short irons don't roll out as much. This leads me to believe that ball position could be the culprit. He could also be trapping the ball.
How can I get the ball to stop on the green? When I hit the green my ball always keeps going. That is with a sand, lob or pitching wedge. When I hit a 7-9 [iron] it does not roll out as much, what am I doing wrong?
Rual Anderson
Ball flight is a big part of whether or not the ball will stop on the green. If you're the type of golfer who drives your legs too far and you get ahead of the ball, you actually deloft the club and trap the ball. This will cause a "flyer" type of ball flight that has little to no spin.
You might also have the ball too far back in your stance and your hands are too far ahead of the ball. You could also be keeping the club too low coming through, so you're hitting the ball at a much lower angle. So, make sure you check your finish position as well.
Being able to hit greens is important. But, being able to keep the ball on the green is even more crucial to shooting good scores. So, make sure you check your setup and swing to see if you are doing any of the things I've mentioned in today's video.
Keep it vertical!
The Surge
Comments
Other thoughts
Trajectory is an important note about how to stop a ball on the green. The higher the ball is falling from, the less forward momentum it will have when it lands. In addition, something I don't think Surge thought of is that Mr. Anderson might be flipping his wrists with his wedges, which reduces impact and imparts less spin on the ball, consequently making it roll out further.
It could also be something else in the way the particular clubs are constructed, since the 7-9 are likely from a set and the wedges are more likely bought separately and individually. Differences in the shaft profile could easily account for why the irons kick through and the wedges don't, right Doc?
Flipping Out
Hey RF-you're flipping comment caught my eye. Good call.
As well, I tend to thin it when flipping, which of course creates a similar outcome, and is fine if you like hiking. What a flipping pain.
Also enjoyed the recent daily about starting the swing from top.
So, my friends, what about this alternate....It might look odd, but....consider the simplicity of being set (and initiating swing) at the toe line and simply lifting from there. Still going to generate plenty of speed to really load the shaft at the top. Guess you could call it a 3/4 , 3/4 swing.
Backyard tested only.....will take it to the range today. If nothing else, it will help groove toe line location.
Half back swing drill
Ha ha! I've been doing that since the first week I ever tried to make a PPGS.
Amazing that it is so easy to hit the ball once I get to that position, and even more amazing that I usually don't hit that position in a regular back swing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b91vvCZXrqY
How About That !?
Well, I should have guessed, Mr. Smith. lol.
I like the way you think outside the box, Steve, and are very straight-forward with what works and what does not. This is a bit unorthodox.
On your video link, I noticed that the shaft, clubhead and your body are in really good position for the lift. I'm struck by the simplicity of the movement.
Drill
The main thing "wrong" with the way I was doing that drill is that it's my mission for the year to have the shaft in line with my right forearm on the way down and at the time I made that video that wasn't even a consideration.
I'm getting closer to achieving my mission but not there yet.
On practice swings without a ball it's right on the money but as soon as I put a ball in the equation it's no longer there.
Eye on the ball
Ya, that silly golf ball seems to be a constant problem.
Drill
Steve, looking at your video, the club is very vertical on the BUS, classic PPGS, but the club doesn't lay back at the start of the FUS. Iv'e been trying a few things like keeping the butt pointing to the ball as long a possible and my last video showed the club very close to what we are trying to achieve, problem for me is that at the top of the BUS, I'm way back in the SGB, which is
contrary to PPGS, like you - still work in progress.
Video
That's because it's an old video. Long before I ever started trying to line up the shaft with my forearm.
All I was trying to do at that point was to make a vertical swing.
You have to get the elbows very close together as the arms are dropping.
Much easier to say than to do but I'm almost there.
Nice drill
Just catching up on the comments and watched your toeline vid.
A good way to feel that position Steve. Well done. Thanks:)
A Day Late for me again ; - )
Surge, thanks again for the confirmation. Trajectory rules!!!
Out yesterday for the first time in 2weeks : - )
Hit some sublime short iron shots nailing several greens. The shot of the day was on the Par 3 hole with a steep drop to the green [no idea how much 90feet perhaps].Flag closer to the front than usual, strong gusts from right to left. Hit a high [deliberately] 8iron[co-incidence]. I lost sight of it, but my lady caddie, said it was close. When I got closer saw it was very close. It had landed over the pin, the pitch mark about an inch and a half beyond the ball.The ball less than 11"inches from the hole : - )
Made our day!
I was distracted by my new 'toy' an Approach S1 Watch. It told me distances to front, centre and rear of the greens. On walking to shots I was amazed at some of the distances!!! No wonder I was inconsistent. All the short irons were on song. A couple of slightly pulled wedges[too quick : - [ My mantra for the day which I had 'forgotten' was 'In Be and Up' As soon as I reverted to that everything was on target.
Weather meant to be OK tomorrow so back to the hallowed turf again. With the new 'aid' I will over the coming weeks check my yardages again.
Surge, THANK YOU VERY MUCH for today's video. May it help other Surgites. DH in sunny at last NZ
eh?
ok i give up, must have missed this one ' in be and up? got me baffled. whats its mean?
eh?
Barrowclough, hahahaha~! Baffled? Sorry. On the video about In Bee Park the Korean LPGA player, 'Does In Be Park use the PPGS Swing?' I use her as a role model in my speed of backswing in the BUS. So my swing thought for today after setting up in my PPGS set up, I use a slower cadence than my 'let's skin the ball',ie, for me the first part 'In Be' has me swinging slower into the BUS and then the 'UP' reminds me of the 'skipping the rock' up to the T finish and recoil in the FUS. Works well for me. Sorry for the confusion. Keep on hitting them straight and long consistently. DH
aha
ah i geddit now. i just didnt make the connection, funnily enough i have been working on exactly the same thought. the other week i was drawn to play with one of the best players in our little society. i was struck with how slow and deliberate his backswing was and even his upswing didnt appear to be that quick but he hits the ball a long way and mostly straight. i have been trying to copy his tempo ever since and am definately hitting the ball better but still room for improvement as ever !
Day late too
We had a busy day Wednesday that included 18 holes of golf and then a b-day dinner with my 23 year old boy with the family. The lads birthday yesterday. Almost had he trifecta of b-days. My Dad was May 20, I was born May 20 and my son.............. May 15. Wife couldn't wait 5 more days! Always said hat if it had happened we would have had a spot on Johnny Carson:)
One observation on back spin on the greens. Like Robert F. said above, getting height on out irons helps stop the ball for most of us. The real biggie though is club head speed and ball first contact. Many may spin their mid to 9 irons better too because they are going after it with a full swing and lots of zip through the ball where as say with a pw-60 they might be backing off and less than full speed. That can mean less back spin and less stopping on the green.
The wife and I have been experimenting with ball first contact. That sometimes means fooling with the ball position with various clubs. In her case because it is challenging for her to have forward shaft lean toward the front thigh (the way Surge recommends and demos) she has found better success with the ball one inch further back on her short irons. She still has it pretty much in the middle but just a bit back and this has allowed her swing to bottom out naturally just past the ball and give her a more crisp ball first contact.
Yesterday on the par 3 #3 hole from 95 yards I had one of those all too rare ideal swings that landed the ball just short of the back of the green and it then backed up 10 feet to be pin high. Cool when it happens. Again it was crisp, ball first contact and a full swing. I think using softer balls and the warmer days is helping too. Ended up shooting 41/42-83. Played well except for two double bogies. Also had three holes where I had beautiful drives that left 70-100 yards and then took 4 more to get in for 3-5's on those. Ugh! Did manage 11 pars but missed 4 birdie chances. More work on the short game to get it back under 80 in the coming days. Over all I was putting better. Not stabbing at it and remembering same speed back and through as I rolled it was helping.
DJ tees off at 1:20 in Dallas. Hope he plays well. Wonder if Robert Fleck will be there??
DJ
Robert, I think RF metioned he planned to be there. He's even after 7. Keegan had some round today.
There
I posted about it in the comments for today's video, but I was indeed there. Got to say hello to DJ before his round and wish him well from the whole Surge Nation. Walked along all 18 holes. DJ, Lee Janzen, and Troy Matteson all hit some great shots. For all that he's a bomber of the ball, what impressed me most about Matteson was his chipping around the greens. 5 out of 6 chips I saw him hit resulted in tap-in putts. And he putted from off the green on 18 for his birdie to get to -3. DJ also hit some terrific chips and pitches, as did Lee Janzen.
Fun
Robert F., how cool to walk with and observe those pros. Amazing eh? They can just do seemingly effortless things with the ball. Great you were actually able to speak to DJ too. Glad you were able to get out to the Byron Nelson. I always look forward to going to the one here in the Fall. They have upgraded it in Fed Ex points for importance and there should be many more of the top PGA pros here this year including DJ I hope. Let us know if you've attended the othre 3 days and how it goes. Hope you're well, and the future Mrs.
One day
I was only able to get over for the one day. Wish I could have cheered DJ on to a better performance on Friday, but too much to do. It was terrific to watch them all play, though.
Day Late Too
Robert, You and Cindy are having a busy time on the hallowed turf : - ) An interesting few comments re: ball position etc Managed to get out alone yesterday for a 9hole practice. The course was swarming with golfers many of who were playing 36 hole competition. I slotted in at the end of the last 4ball and played the 'tougher' 9holes, including mountain goat holes hahaha. A satisfying practice with some very good results. Pitching and chipping was excellent. Now the wet stuff is returning with a vengeance. Meant to be wet for the next 10days : - ( So watching and swinging indoors in prospect. Ho-hum! I have checked out club position in respect to my grip/hand positions/head position at address in a full length mirror. I was about to step outside to check out where the clubs were making contact with the grass, and down came the rain. Patience indeed. I use two methods to set up to the ball. I checked both of them very carefully. The 'in method' at the moment is lining the clubhead at the target from behind and then moving around to take up my stance, then taking my grip on the club. It may be coincidence, will see. On your near trifecta? Our Wedding Anniversary almost makes it too hahaha!
I don't even think about backing up wedges Robert. I find the higher trajectory shot seems to do the job at the moment. Used the youngest putter yesterday. Not bad, but will return the older Zero3 putter to the bag for the next outing.
Bradley 10 under! Amazing. Some good scores. Hope DJ prospers on the morrow. Poulter and Colesaerts out of the Matchplay early in Bulgaria.
Keep on keeping on Robert. DH putting the brolly back on the bag : - (
surges net
how come sometimes surges net is black and sometimes it;s red?
Surge's new net
The red net appears to be a new net. I think. When Surge starts shooting videos, he may shoot four, five, six or more in a day then sends them to Tom Jans for editing and lining up to be run on the daily video series. Sometimes they are not in the sequence that Don videod them that is why one may have the new net and the next it may be the old net.
I am not positive but that's the way it was explained to me.
Hal
the net
cheers hal. only a minor point but was bugging me. lol
Surge's new net
It's a Rukket. I ordered one back in March, it's on backorder, have not received it yet. Surge must have a connection!! Check it out. I can't wait to receive mine. Deb
swing adds loft to the shot
I tried to be fitted for new clubs and was told that my swing adds 2 degrees of loft to the club. Fitter said before new irons deal with how the club is delivered to the ball.
What adds loft? I feel like I'm swinging vertical on the back swing and up on the forward swing. Am I hanging back too much? Do I need my hands forward more to create a left lean to the shaft?
thanks
Howard Stevens
swing adds loft to the shot
I tried to be fitted for new clubs and was told that my swing adds 2 degrees of loft to the club. Fitter said before new irons deal with how the club is delivered to the ball.
What adds loft? I feel like I'm swinging vertical on the back swing and up on the forward swing. Am I hanging back too much? Do I need my hands forward more to create a left lean to the shaft?
thanks
Howard Stevens
Spine angle
Howard,
First, let me say that many of us using the PPGS hit the ball higher than typically taught swings. So personally I prefer to hit the ball high. Walking around the TPC golf course and watching the PGA pro's play today (at the Shriner's golf tournament) I was again amazed at how high these guys hit the ball. It's awesome to watch in person. 2 degrees of loft? Many excellent golfers add a whole lot more than that. Many average golfers would love to get more height out of their shots. I am not questioning the advice of that fitter but is he a qualified teacher or just sharing his opinion based on the radar findings? But any how.
Surge teaches that a simple change of spine angle can add loft. He doesn't express this in a negative light though. It is done on purpose when we want to hit the ball higher- for example when we want to hit the ball over a tree. I do this myself sometimes but again on purpose. Imagine yourself set up and you angle the spine more toward the back foot. When we want to swing level we don't set up with as much tilt. When you want a lower ball flight do three things. One, don't tilt over back foot. Set up real level but then also don't pre-load right as much of at all. In fact you may have just a bit more weight on the forward foot. Finally, swing level- that is not as much up as we normally do. Think knock down. Yes, in that case your hands and shaft may have a bit more forward lean (don't over do it). When swinging keep the hands gripped so that the hands are still slightly ahead of the ball. Try all these ideas in small increments. Be especially careful not over do the forward lean idea. The other set up thoughts may be sufficient. Do yourself a HUGE favor and buy Surges 'working the ball' video. Another instant download that will give you the ideas much more clearly with demonstrations.
Mean while I will give you a couple of references that you could have found on your own by utilizing the search tool found on the above right hand side of this page under LOG IN.
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Adding loft
Impossible for me to know if you are adding loft at impact or not, but assuming you are that is not correct (with any swing) off of the fairway. You could get away with some of that with the ball teed up with a driver but that's about it.
If you are adding loft you are letting the club head get in front of your hands at impact and probably flipping at the ball with an early release. Has nothing to do with whether you are using a vertical swing or not.
I hit the ball as high as anybody I know but my hands are ahead of the club head at impact. It's the difference between hitting a high 7 iron that goes 180 yards and a high (and weak) 7 iron that only goes 150 yards.