PPGS Tempo And Timing

Louie, just a suggestion--my friends and I are using an Android app called Metronome, a free app.  All it does it tick at various beats per minute, like a musician's metronome, but it is very useful if you want to measure the tempos of successful golfers and your own tempo.  We use it to get a rough idea of the tempos of the pros' swings with metals, irons, and putters to get an idea of the range of tempos they use, and use it to monitor our own tempos, particularly when we are swinging particularly well on a given day. 

We find that using  Surge's 1-2-3 count that he cites twice during today's video (as opposed to the 1-2-3-4 and 1-2 tempos that you often read about) seems to work best. 

A word of caution for those comparing tempo counts--if one person uses a 1-2-3 characterization of the swing and another uses the 1-2-3-4 count, you will come up with different beats per mintute for the same swing, so you can't compare notes without comparing which method you are using to characterize the swing.

I find that if I use a tempo that is any faster than 75% of the slowst pro, I'm out of control.

I also used the metronome to identify the best tempo that allows me to control the putter more accurately.  Any slower, and I can't use the momentum of the putter to help keep it moving on the desired path and thus have to use more muscles to move it, and any faster and I jerk it off line.

Thanks for sharing.  I'll let you know how it works out for me.

Let's all be praying for DJ. At least he made the cut (barely) today. He needs to make a move on the weekend. Eliminate the bogeys. He's sitting at a projected 127 now. Don't want to see him have to go to Q School and back to the Nationwide. If he doesn't make it to 125 or better, he still will have conditional status, and be on the alternate lists for tournaments. Not a good way to make a living.

Tech crew
I did and it is great and awesome. I like it and somebody should be congratulated for a splendid job.
Hal

What works for me is the beginning of the Blue Danube Waltz- Da Da Da Dum. 

Mr Joe,
Golf magazine did a top instructor list a few years ago and Don was listed as # 50 of the 100 instructors listed.
Hal

The way the projections work is flawed.  If a golfer is tied for any position in the tournament, his projected winnings are based on that position, no matter how many people he is tied with.  For example, Justin Leonard and Bio Kim are both projected to earn $846,000 because they're currently tied for 1st place.  But, this is not possible because only one golfer will take home 1st place money this week.  Also, the 125th and 126th current projected guys didn't make the cut.  DJ is currently projected 127th and is only $2,000 behind 125th.  The math is right there in front of us.  If DJ shoots even par for the weekend, he will be fine.  He can honestly earn last place money and still be in the top 125 when it's all said and done...

You all shall see, as I only predict the truth. 

Hal,

Glad you liked the new video on the Home Page. It was created by our talented videographer and video editor Arie Wolfert. It gave me goose bumps the first time I saw it!

Tom Jans
Director of Marketing

Don should pop in the top 100 much better than 50----with this body friendly and accuracy producing swing not to mention the frequent free tips on the web site a 50 position is more than a tad too low.  Having met Don and DJ and worked with them, albeit briefly, I believe he is the best instructor I've ever met.

DJ tees off at 11:30am local Florida time. So I know where my focus will be at 8:30am my time out west. Doing some serious "pulling" for Deej Saturaday and Sunday. He can do it. It's time to dig deep. The only "B's " we want are -irdies!!

Sounds a little like you wanted to loose it anyway. If I am wrong, I apologize, but, you don't sound too sure yourself of Don's credentials. Are you sure you're not the one doing the questioning.

Like the old saying, Try it, you'll like it. But you have to commit to find any real success, even IF, All your buddies make fun of you.

PMG

Very nice. Fitting for the kind of superhero most of us believe Don is. ;-)

Like the idea of a metronome Charlie. Is it downloaded to something else, ie, is it transportable to the practice ground or driving range, for instance?
It needs to be almost robotic for me. No problem with the wedges and short irons, but the longer clubs. Decades of rotational madness hasn't helped.
Off for a practice with the shorter clubs,putter and perhaps the shorter shafted 24* Rescue club.
Golf balls in the freezer for three hours x 3 applications has it so, at least I can hold a club properly ; - ) Sun fighting to get out also, yeeehaa! Liked your blog. PMGmetronomically

Thanks for the alert. After I read the description about the 3:1 ratio of frames on the backswing relative to the forward swing to contact and what it means with regard to tempo, I had to do some thinking. At first, I thought it meant that a four-count tempo would be better, with three counts on the backswing and one count on the forward swing. Then I realized that using a 1-2-3-4 count is no more useful than using a 1-2-3 count because neither helps you set the speed for the forward swing to get this 3:1 ratio. I can't think of an easy way to select the right forward swing speed to establish this 3:1 ratio that the researchers found from the videos. I guess I would have to get the DVD to find out how they teach this aspect of the 3:1 swing ratio.

Great stuff guys. Yes it gives me geese too :) I did notice a couple subtle adjustments,
instead of "one man" it is "a man and his Son." And no more Matahorn Mountain. Liked the mountain too, it added majesticness to it all. Still, very cool and love the Budist monk feel of the music and captions in black. Who says golf is not a spiritual experience.  Oooooooowwwwwwwwmmmmmmnnnnnn..........Interesting thing to me too is that it is fitting because Surge actually is very deep and knowledgable on many other subjects besides golf. Politics, health, social issues? Conservative and very much does have an opinion. Man of faith and principals, honesty and integrity. I respect that. I think most of us are drawn to him for those reasons in addition to the 'golf speak' we enjoy and learn from.

Grunner,

I had a full set of fitted clubs made at the beginning of this season, by a PPGS certified fitter. He used SK Fiber graphite shafts for all clubs, and Tom Wishon heads.  Driver, 3-hybrids, and 6-irons. Mine are A/Senior Flex. I had never heard of them either up till then. I am pleased with their performance thus far.

Good luck with yours. 

Tom,

Arie deserves a raise.  ;0)

I hope you are correct, but I also hope he scores much better than even par for the weekend.

Good night Dick, where ever you are.

 

Robert, as it turns out that's exactly where I am at now, I'm trying to think less about
mechanics and more about putting the ball to the target. I've been working on getting the
mechanics down pat for about a year and a half (stretching over about 35 rounds of golf,
many visits to the driving range, and lots of swinging in my backyard) and I think I finally
have most of it down. Thing was, I was still finding that I was erratic with respect to where the ball was going. Three rounds ago I decided to let go of all the "swing-mechanic-y"
swing thoughts and just focus on where the target is, and the feel of the swing (hmm
"swing the feel", where have I heard that before?) during the actual swing, and boom, all of a sudden the golf course changed from that proverbial baseball park to a bowling alley as Surge would say. I haven't lost a ball in three rounds and my scores have been coming
down steadily (now if I can only get that short game fired up again). I live in Canada so
there isn't much time left in this season, but I'm excited about next year to keep focused
on target and swing feel thoughts and maybe other mental aspects of the game that I
dig up in the off-season.

I'm interested to hear any other mental or visual thoughts you (or others on this blog) are working on and achieving results with.

BTW thanks again to the Surge for the Peak Performance swing, it's got me improving
again!

cheers,
RT

PS. I tried the 50 compression balls in cold weather as Surge suggested in one of his
Daily's and that seems to work, I find I have better control of my shots and no loss of
distance.

As far as tempo, the tour tempo site is quite interesting. They have found through studies that on full swings that pros all have a swing that is three parts backswing and one part forward swing. They break it up into 21/7, 24/8 and 28/9. Though some take longer over all or again are very fast like Nick Price who does the whole swing in less than 1 second, it is still a 3/1 ratio. I believe they said that the partial swings of the short game are more in line with 2/1 or even 1/1. Still looking at it. I may buy and use thier system. As for now can't spend a dime! lol.The ideas and logic are free and there is much on line that is "free". Any how it's all interesting to me. Areas like tempo and the study of the "mental" game of golf and developement of those aspects are becoming more important to me recently as I want to get away from the mechanical and technical side of golf. I feel like I know this set up and swing quite well now. As it becomes more ingrained and natural and automated I want to focus more on my shot and target and the feel of it all while not having my mind distracted by swing methods. That will be my goal in the coming months. Oh I will still practice everything that is 'Surge' but move more into visualization and feel.

Baxter,

Yes, check out this link. You can enlarge the pics and even play them as a slide show if desired. Good luck
https://picasaweb.google.com/C...

I love the new video presentation. Good work Arie.

 I would love to see an expanded version in commercial format on the Golf Channel some time.

PMG

There is someone who is trying to sell the idea that the back swing takes three beats and the fore swing one beat, or something to that effect. This is supposed to be a set rhythm no matter if the swing is quicker or slower. Does you app have the ability to break down the swing into the two directions?

Dragonhead--the app I use is downloaded to my Android phone.  I'm almost positive that the same app or a similar app is available for iPhones.  When I'm playing a round with others,  I just plug in an earphone into the phone and listen to a few seconds of the metronome.  On the driving range, I sometimes use the earphone, but I also play it through the phone's speaker.  People are so busy swinging away that they don't notice the sound. 

After you settle on the tempos you want to use for various clubs, I imagine that you could make digital recording, strore them as tracks of sound, and play them when the shot calls for them, but I really feel that using the app on a smart phone is the easiest way to experiment with different tempos and then use them as reminders.

Steve--don't know how to get ahold of you.  Can you call me of repond to this with your phone number so I can call you? My cell phone number is 9number edited out as advised.)

Needed this video Surge. Tempo and Timing. Funny, I slowed down the BUS and hit more solid and straight shots. Nailing them straight 80% of the time off tee and fairways. Short game becoming more confident. Yesterday another 3hr for 18holes round.Pleased with the practice.One on the debit side only. On about the 5th hole, I got a sharp pain at the base of the  second finger of my right hand, where it meets the palm.For the rest of the round, it hurt like heck.This morning I can't close it into a fist. Maybe have to revert to a 10 finger grip using only 8 heh heh heh. Have half a dozen golf balls in the freezer ready to use to reduce it.
A bummer. A couple of the best drives with the driver yesterday even with the painful digit.
Todays very welcome video for me. I am a fast talking,fast walking individual who perhaps has been swinging too fast to co-ordinate the various body parts. Still a happy chappy and a work in progress.May have to cut down on swinging today, we will see how it goes after the 'ice' treatment. Thankyou Surge for the video on keeping stable on the BUS ONLY, that helped a lot. Keep it long and straight PMGAS this Labour Weekend holiday.Greetings to All surgites for the holiday.

That Surge, that is me, fast, I have been doing everything fast all of my life and three or four things at once!!  Golfed 18 yesterday, hit some good, some not so good.  Played with a 84 year old man and his wife, guess what he said, slow down, coming up to soon!   Always want to see my ball before I hit it????   I did have one of the longest drive I think I ever had, everything right, why can't I do that all of the time???  I did watch him allot and it helped too, as he was club champion many years.    Hands under chin and all..

Thanks so much for your help, see what today brings...

marilyn

I use the tempo that best describes the type of shot I am trying to create. Lobs are sloooow, low under the wind are faaaast. I march to the drummer of what ever I need. Tempo is still an absolute need for consistent ball striking.

FYI:

DJ just birdied 15 and 16 to go to -5.
http://www.pgatour.com/shottra...

Shortgame wizard--you open up an interesting discussion point--it seems that the pros do as you do, different tempos for different shots, but I think I read that Ernie Els uses the same tempo for all clubs.  Timing the tempos of pros while watching them play on TV using the Metronome app on my Android phone indicates that the swing their irons on the fairway at a considerably slower tempo than their driver.

Hi Surge:
Have you heard or tried Tour Tempo?  I've been struggling with my timing and ran across that product.  I haven't bought the App yet.  What do you think about it?

Robert
You're great. You have a large mountain of knowledge and  the vocabulary to use it. Me. I am a SC redneck that doesn't even know the definition of the word. However, I say what I think and it is usually communicable but not necessarily politically correct. Hummm, did I say all that,
Hal

I would love to see the view from directly above the base of the neck. This would give a better idea of how the swing looks from Surge's eyes.

I do recall several posts about a DVD product and associated research where a team of researchers watched videos of swings frame by frame and found that the ratio of backswing time to forward swing frames was consistent from golfer to golfer, even through the individual tempos change.  I can't do anything like that with the Metronome app.  All it does is tick at the beats per minute that you set.  When watching the pros, all I can do with it is to match their count (I use 1-2-3 because it seems easier than 1-2-3-4) to various settings of the metronome until I get a close match.  When I'm doing this seriously, I will make a DVR recording so that I can play it again and again to refine the match to the metronome.

It is like the reverse of dancing, where you match your footwork count to the music.  This time, I'm matching the metronome to the swing count.

With just a little experience, you can get fairly good at making a good guess of the tempo of a swing you see on TV or live.  You'll find that you can chose a setting that is close to the actual tempo of the swing on the first try.

I can imagine that some people might be so good at finding their best tempo without a tool like Metronome, but I find it useful for pre-swing rehearsal, particularly when things are going bad. 

Oh, one more thing about putting tempo--I was able to try different tempos and get an idea of how much further the ball will roll if I quicken or slow down my putting tempo in addition to how my accuracy related to tempo.  Of course, this all sounds more ideal than the actualities.

Hi Golfers,
Re the tempo video, something that I like for tempo is the old Leslie King analogy that you should use as little energy as possible on the backswing. Nice and relaxed into the backswing, then let it swing forward and up. As Don says "you don't hit the ball with the backswing".
By doing this, especially on an off day, I find immediate improvement. 
Just a suggestion--- but it works well for me.
Have fun,
SwissT

any way to see your initial swing as you come on in slower motion and from front and side shots several times ?      Baxter Byerly

Wow.. cool video but, what list is Don a top 50 instructor.  I told my buddy that and he called me out and said prove it.  I can not find it anywhere,,,  Help

so 20 years ago...  hmmm  I'm afraid I lose my bet. ;(

If you haven't done so... Go check out the new Welcome video on the front page of the website :)

I'm having a new shaft put into my driver.  One of the shafts recommended to me by the fitter is an SK Fiber shaft. I had never heard of them before.  From the research I have done, it seems to be a good product.  I was wondering if any my fellow Surgites are familiar with them or know of someone that uses them in their clubs.  Any feedback would be appreciated.  Thanks in advance.

I have never thought about tempo to much neither and maybe should on the practice tee. The only thing I think about on the course is the shot at hand. I can only control the shot that's in front of me. I forget about the last shot I hit there's nothing you can do about it whether it was good are bad.

See Pkochano's post above about the name of the people who did the frame by frame analysis of the timing of swings.

Charlie, it seems from the superficial reading of their analysis it is simply counting the framerate of the back and fore swings. How to achieve that is likely thinking of the tempo of a song that resonates positively within you. It also was independent of how fast or slow the swing is.