Alignment: Don't Play Golf Without It!

Doc:

AS TO: "You sir, scare me!!"

The AA supersaver fare and a free shaft and fitting remains an open for you to pick up .... any time you are ready for the head to head competition. And oh yes ..... I will pay to have you fedex your Rombax beauty as well - here and back to SC. All at no expense to you.

What I really like is seeing this awareness on your part the newer materials translate to more distance. That is new for this forum but PLEASE .... don't be scared. If you can hit the ball longer and straighter with this new material then figure the process is all about learning how to use the best science to get the most results. This is just another stepping stone down the road called progress that started even way before golf's Thomas Edison (Jim Flood).

RR:

Have Doc or your local fitter build you a club with a House of Forged shaft (it is likely better than what you have now) and then come to San Diego and we will build you a driver that will beat that club by 20-40 yards.

The goal here is to see DJ win 2 majors and 7 tournaments per year and displace Tiger and Jack as the best golfer to have ever lived. And then the rest of us get 1% as good as DJ.

Hey Roger,

Try this video: http://www.swingsurgeon.com/Da...

That may help. Also, be sure you are getting video of your swing to be able to watch any problems and help diagnose them. Improper weight shift and improper ball position are the two biggest and most common causes of chunks.

Bob

I don't think the F-111 ever was a Navy or Marine bird. Wasn't it a USAF bird? If I am right then unless the USAF has started building carriers WK is upside down on his facts. Big suprise there.

Dick

Good night guys.

Can you just imagine how the whiners would come out of the woodwork if Surge started selling T-shirts and hats with Surge Nation on them. They are not smart enough to figure out that if they don't like something, they don't have to buy it.

I know that somewhere in this big old world someone is checking their alignment and going vertical, because as we all know, The sun never sets on the Surge Nation.

Dick

Doc Griffin,

Just out of shear curiosity, I figured out where the butt of my clubs are when I take my normal stance and then leaned them all up in a line against a counter at that height. The shaft of my 2-metal appears to be a half inch shorter than it should be (it is the same length as my 3-metal) and my 5-metal appears to be a half inch longer than it should be (same length as 4-metal). Shouldn't these shaft lengths be progressively shorter? My SW shaft is also a half inch longer than my other wedges. I also noticed that, laid on flat on the soles, only 3 of my clubs (8,9, & PW) set perpendicular (square) to the target line. All my clubs longer than the 8-iron are slightly closed, and my other 3 wedges (GW, SW, & LW) are all slightly open. Is this normal? I am thinking that I need to get them all redone.

P.S. I tried the ball against the club face test for the sweet spot. Most of my clubs appeared to be dead center, except for my 2-metal, 5-metal, GW, and LW, which were all slightly toward the toe and lower. Maybe that is why I get different results from those 4 clubs, would you think?

Gregg

Welcome home to the Surge Nation.

Keep coming back.

Dick

AOA was set at 0 so that all distances were based solely on speed and loft. I'm in over my head? Jack, this is where I make my living! I also don't invent drivers. I create works of art! Where in the world did you get the idea that I was pleased that a material gave me extra yardage? The material is still graphite in the Rombax and it's graphite with TexTron weave in the Blur. It's still graphite just like the ET2 shaft which has a base of graphite composite, Mr. Bill.

YES.

R2. What make and loft did Doc G use in your driver?

Thanks. Phillip

Mr. Bill,

I declare I do think you are a certifiable nut case. The comment was a joke and I have also told you that I won't need a motel room and if I did I would pay for it. I wouldn't sleep well at night knowing you knew where I was if I stayed anyway. You sir, scare me!!

He made a nice two-putt birdie on 16 from 82 feet away. Great lag there, DJ!

Last fall I was hitting balls at the range and the swing felt ok but my good golfer friend pointed out my club was open by maybe 2 degrees at address. When I corrected this I immediately gained 7-10 yards with the same iron.

Galvinnspi: In addition to doing what Robert F. recommends, you may also want to get the length of your clubs checked and make sure they are not too long and/or have a incorrect lie angle. If you consistently take good-sized divots with every club, your tools could need some adjustments. R2

Roy

Thanks pal, I try.

Hope you had a blessed day. I got to take my wife to our grandson's baseball game and out to diner.

I will holler at all you guys when I get home tomorrow.

Dick

Doc:

>. The newest shaft that I've tried is the Blur but the Rombax is my gamer.

How the basic graphite material is put together makes for a "new material".

You invented the business class fare as a means to change the offer. And at first you were unwilling to even bring your driver. And how the new material is even fit creates the longer carry. So it is not just the new material that is at issue but how the new material is fit to the clubhead. It is the combo that counts ... that produces the results.

That is why if you ever decide to come out I will have nothing to do with the fitting and will not even be there if you prefer. The only issue should be this new material and my fitter creating a new driver for you to see if it beats your Rombax driver. Who knows which combo will win. I am willing to pay to find out and the process won't cost you a dime. And you get this new driver shaft as well.

I am super pleased that you are getting lots more distance out of your Rombax. More distance and accuracy is what more people want - even at DJ's level. All the LDA guys I saw at Salt Creek played the ball off the forward left toe and used a long driver shaft. Not a 43 or 44" job.

As a former F-111 technician and avionics instructor, I am declaring bullsheet. There are absolutely no graphite components used in the F-111 program. The first aircraft in the US military inventory to use graphite components was the A-10 Thunderbolt II. This aircraft and the graphite technology used in the leading edge of it's wing are products of the Fairchild Aircraft Company, not General Dynamics.

Also, not all high quality graphite shafts are built in SoCal. They actually have their origins in the fishing rod industry. In fact, Gary Loomis has been building high quality shafts for more than 15 years at his plant (now owned by Shimano) in southwest Washington. G.Loomis probably has more kowledge and experience working with high modulus graphite than any other company in the world.

By the way, I have never had the chance to try the House of Forged Shafts, but I did get to hit with a Penley ET2 shaft, which might be similar. I hit the ball 30 yards shorter than with the driver that Doc built for me using a ProForce Lady 65.

I think I'll stick with what I have for awhile.

Hit'em Long and Straight,
Bob

GolfCat

Nemrod is like the little troll WK, except he does come over here very ofter. He always has something stupid to say about Surge, DJ, or Doc. I am going to have to keep track of when he shows up. I wonder if the schedule of his appearances will line up with a weekend work release program from one of the prison farms in his area.

He never really listens to what Surge says, he just takes one part of it and zeros in on it. Like when the moron tried to reduce the Surge swing to "an arm swing." He can only try to cheapen the swing because he probably can't get it down enough to make it work.

Maybe he should go sit on WK's magic shaft and spin. After their date, he could go see if he could hit a golf ball with WK's other magic shaft.

I have never been able to figure these morons out. If this swing does not work for them, why not just go find one that does and then spend their time on that swing's blog.

some people just like to stir up the bottom of the septic tank.

Dick

Too true Surge, I hit a dead left shot today and it went straight and I caught it well! I was just about to walk away mumbling what did I do there!, then I remembered to drop the club at the toes, guess what I was aiming left and was well on target to where I was aiming!! So the hit was great, it was encouraging to walk away from that shot with the knowledge that my alignment was out and my hit was good! It also made my next shot clearer with no swing thoughts.
I played with two others today and they didn't stand back and check their alignment once! But they did blame lots of other things for bad shots, caught the mud, hit down, head up!

Very happy today I beat my last outing score with a 101 score by 7 and hit some really good shots at times, more consistent and came away encouraged. Looking forward to have been playing for a couple of years!

I really don't even want his likeness that close to my private (or public for that matter) areas! HA HA

The composite material used in the F-111 was made of boron and epoxy. There was no graphite used whatsoever. The boron/epoxy compound was used to repair cracks in the pivot points of the wing assembly.

Finished with two birdies on the back for even par today and -1 for tourny. Looks like he's getting used to the belly putter. Getting better with his first putt lags which is the biggest challenge with the longer putters. Short putts actually become easer. Overall okay day. Hopefully get it under 70 in tomorrows round.

Jeff, have you videotaped your swing to check that you're actually doing the swing correctly? Have you checked the lengths and lies and such on your clubs to be sure that they're properly fit? Are you, perhaps, trying to gain what you perceive as lost distance by swinging harder?

Jack,
Surge still offers the free 10 day email lessons they're available on the homepage in the upper left side of the page just below the header banner. The video lesson series is available under the Surge's Shop tab as well. Great investment for buck and a healthier body friendly swing.
Boog

Dale: Great idea! And the hat should say, "ALIGNMENT" - Don't leave home without it!. I'll be first in line to buy one :-) R2

Dick

You missed your calling,pal. You need to take it on the road with Larry and Foxworthy...lol. I'm hitting rack just crying after falling off my chair. That's 2 in a row for you. If my count is right that makes it Yankees-2 Rednecks-2. Does this mean overtime? WK could start his own line of golf gear...TrollsRUs. I'm sure you can come up with a marketing slogan.

Lynn

Robert:

All the long drivers at the Salt Creek competition play the ball off their left foot. Many had very good swing and hit the ball straight ... many were pretty wild and had bad swings. But all their shots went really long. I learned to hit the ball off my front toe. It isn't that hard and does not create more dispersion - especially when the integrated to stable knees and a 3/4 swing.

Doc:

As to:
"Played the Rombax today and it was looooooooooooooooonnnnnnnnnnnnnnngggggggggggggg. Even the few misses were long and the dispersion was excellent."

Bring out your Rombax beauty and my fitter will give you a club that will beat it 25-30 yards at least. I will buy you a supersaver on AA and put you up at the local Holiday Inn.

I am extremely pleased to see you get on board with the idea that the shaft material matters. Just think if you gave DJ 25-30 more yards and his accuracy improved by 50% or more as well. Our goal should be to have him win 2 majors per year and 7 PGA tournaments ... be more feared than Tiger ever was.

First off I would like to say thanks to Surg and DJ for their help here. Now I have a question. The rules of golf say that you are not allowed to use any alignment devise during regulation play. I understand using one during practice or just goofing around on the coarse but during a tournament am I allowed to lay a club down after my shot ? I appreciate any response !!! Thanks

Kevin,
your idea of flicking your club away would be regarded as building your stance, and therefore against the rules.
Aidan

I'm sorry. My post below wasn't very nice. I will ask forgiveness again. Vaughan is wondering why I have such a long list at night that starts with Mr. Bill!!!!

Robert:

Don't do it "'I'm getting fit (in May if possible) and wiil likely end up with a 12/13 degree driver" tee you ball higher and keep moving it forward until you hit your drive at the height you desire. Adding more loft will increase the amount of spin you place on the ball and this robs you of distance.

Doc:

Looks to me like you want to duck a head to head competition.

OH MY GOODNESS!!! Are you kidding me? Where will it end? Now we're dealing with sleep disorders?!?!?!?!?!

R2, I set it would be tough to do a set make up for a customer regarding doing a video. How in the world do you take my statement totally out of context. I think you made a very reasonable offer to the man but you know good and well he ain't going to do it.

Also, I think this is the right time to tell Mr. Bill that the fitters at Stadium have been talked to and the remarks from them do not seem to add up to just what has been being put forth on this venue. Putting up the name and number of Stadium probably was not one of his more lucid maneuvers!

GIVE IT UP BILL, YOU'RE BUSTED!!!

To properly check lengths, it doesn't matter just where they are when you take your stance because your may not sole the club perfectly flat. The true test is to place them flat on the floor and measure up the back of the shaft from the floor to the butt end. The problem is try to "eye ball" the length leaning on something as the heads get progressively larger and if you looking that them with toes at the same place it will throw the measurement off.

As for clubs looking open or square, I can assure you that the irons are not closed. The problem here is that you don't have the handle far enough forward of the club head. If you have the soled properly, sitting on the flat of the sole and not the bounce or back edge of the club, you'll see that the butt end of the club is a good bit out in front of the leading edge of the club face.

I really don't want to address the center of gravity of clubs as the only true test is to test them without the shaft in them and there is a piece of equipment that is used to do the test.

Joe, we're talking centimeters, maybe. What Doc said was that you should just try to hit the ball in the middle of the face of the club as consistently as you can. The sweet spot on many drivers may be a little more up and a little more forward, but the difference is so small that you and I aren't likely to have enough control for it to matter. It's not like Surge said "hit the ball on the toe of your driver." If that's what you thought he said, you are mistaken.

Thanks R2!

Phillip

Evening Bill. I didn't get a call from you today. Left my number at Stadium Golf like you said to do. I feel bad. By the way, is your magic shaft a nice, glowing green stick and does it have the word "Kryptonite" on it? Hope, Hope Hope. Have a nice evening. R2

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Kenmaryb here´s the answer to your question:
Golf Rule 8.2.a states the following:

Any mark placed by the player or with his knowledge to
indicate the line must be removed before the stroke is made.
Exception: Flagstick attended or held up – see Rule 17-1.

PENALTY FOR BREACH OF RULE:
Match play – Loss of hole; Stroke play – Two strokes.

Regards,
Jack Hill

WK: Sorry, but it's been a very tough and long day for me, I just got home, I'm very cranky, and I need to get some rest. But, before I go, I want to share something very, very important with you. 1. You are an idiot. 2. I do not have sleep apnea. 3. You do have it, therefore, your brain is not working properly and you are still an idiot. 4. There is simply no way in hell you can fit me for a shaft that will give me 30-40 more yards; this fantasy is stuck in your brain, which is deprived of air due to sleep apnea, so, well you get the picture. 5. If you are so good at giving everyone 30-40 more yards, here is my challenge to you; Doc. Griffin built me an AWESOME driver using a "long-distance" fitting. I will send you the same information I sent Doc Griffin. Have YOUR fitter do a long distance fitting and build me a driver. Send it to me, and I will take it to our local range and film the whole test process (you choose how you want the process done) and determine distance differences between your "magic shaft" and my real driver, using independent witnesses and a camera crew. I will then mail your magic club back to you. If your club gives me even 20 yards more distance, I will apologize profusely to you on this very public blog. If my driver gives me more distance than your supernatural shaft, you will drop this insane "majic shaft" dribble once and for all, no and's, if's or but's. So, WK, game on!!! What you gonna do Billy??? I am really, really sick and tired of you wasting space on this golf blog to continually prove to us that you are an idiot. We already know that. R2

Could this possibly be the "Magical Mystery Shaft?"

http://cgi.ebay.com/HOUSE-FORG...

Hit'em Long and Straight,
Bob

Darn right Surge! Richard

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Hmmmmmn, Tom Wishon, master Club fitter, club designer for 40 plus years?........ or WK and his advice?............
I was'nt asking for advice, I was simply informing others what I am going to do based on years of research done by the most informed master club fitter outside of Ralph Maltby. Again I wasn't asking permission or for advice but stating what my own 40 years of golf study and life experience has me doing. And please don't bother sharing what your 50, 60+ year old friends are doing using your recipes and magic shafts. I live in the real world and not in the world of exagerated claims and mystery friends and magical shafts that don't have a name or a maker to name. You have no credibility with me.

Doc:

That $1000 had to do with a contribution for health ... now we are just trying to see if your new "Rombax" that is: "looooooooooooooooonnnnnnnnnnnnnnngggggggggggggg. Even the few misses were long and the dispersion was excellent" is a match for the stick my fitter would give you.

And you may not believe this but I am very pleased you found a new material that delivered this extra distance and accuracy. But what if I had an early model of the Rombax several months back, you did not know it existed and I was telling you that this new material (that was the exact material that you would later discover on your own) delivered a lot more distance and accuracy. You would not have believed me.

>>I also said you could buy a Super Saver ticket to my place and we'll have a competition and should your driver win, I'll still pay you $1000.

I have no idea how to fit you or anyone else and my driver likely won't be the right setup for you. What has to happen is that my fitter gets to see your swing and then fits you.

When you didn't want to bring your driver for a head to head competition I think that was before you fitted yourself with the new Rombax shaft. No wonder you didn't want to come. Now you have the new Rombax ... why not fly out at my expense and see which driver is longer -- your Rombax or the driver my fitter creates for you.

And I have also offered to put up an AA supersaver fare towards your Delta business class ticket. You have said you will put up 50% of the price for this ticket. So that leaves us a few hundreds dollars apart. I have suggested several times that if we split this several hundred dollars 20 or 40 ways through people here on the forum (the price of an inner membership for a month for heaven's sake) then that would cover all the costs ... and you get the free driver and fitting at no cost to you.

The lack of takers on the blog suggest that no one has any confidence in you. They don't want you shown up so they launch all sorts of smears and personal attacks at me to defend you. If they really wanted to defend you then they would each one pony up their share of the balance of the ticket, you would fly to San Diego business class and destroy the driver that my fitter creates for you.

But again ... their silence to have you confront a superior driver created by my fitter (IMHO) speaks LOUDER than all their insults and defamations. They just don't believe in you or they would but their money (itty bitty amount per complainer) on the line. Like how can you play golf when you think you will lose. This says these guys have mental issues and not just bad golf swings using the wrong equipment.