Find Your Swing Range Of Motion

Wed, 03/14/2012 - 20:54 -- Don Trahan

I received a question from a gentleman named Bob Knuth, who has had issues with both of his shoulders. He wanted to know if there was a way to make a good swing while limiting the usage of his right shoulder. Before I could answer the question, I first wanted to check with my Director of Health, Fitness, and Nutrition, Wayne Coolidge.

After talking with Wayne, the answer still depends on what kind of movement you are capable of. If you take a look at the video, you'll see that when I stand like a cactus with both arms up, that's as far as my arms go when I'm making a swing. So, you'll have to go out and test your limits and where you start to feel the pain in your swing. You should still be able to put a good swing on the ball, even with limited movement.

The limited turn, vertical swing is perfect for health issues like bad shoulders and backs, because it's virtually a pain-free, simple way to swing the golf club. Forget trying to get to parallel at the top of the swing if you've got a bad shoulder. Instead, use the Peak Performance Golf Swing and as long as you are within the parameters, you can make slight adjustments to fit your game and your body.

Keep it vertical,

The Surge!

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Comments

Steve Smith's picture

Submitted by Steve Smith on

 "Popping up ASAP" is AFTER impact. The hips are likely to be very slightly open at impact. The shoulders should be pretty much square at impact. The head should still be very close to where it was at address.

Robert Meade's picture

Submitted by Robert Meade (not verified) on

No better reinforcement than personal experience. Glad to see you get the most out of the 3/4 swing. Nice round Jon.

Dick Lee's picture

Submitted by Dick Lee (not verified) on

Lynn

You are laying it on thick tonight Pal, even for you.  But, I like the way you think.

It might be more like, Lee's Laughable Legion.  I'm good with that.  So long as it doesn't turn out to be Lee's Legion of Losers.  I don't want to lead that group.

I'm looking forward to the time on the course tomorrow.  It is always nice to play a new course, and hopefully it will give me a little insight into what types of shots I will need to be able to play for the PAT.

At least that is the way I'm hoping it will turn out.

I will let you know,
Dick

Dragonhead's picture

Submitted by Dragonhead (not verified) on

To all Surgites everywhere: Have a Happy St Patrick's Day. Our is nigh over, but to all those who have yet to awake to green porridge, with green milk and green honey, have a good one. Don't forget either today any of you, fairways and GREENS ; - )
I had a very good day on the course. A few wrinkles ironed out and a little more consistant. Even used my brain a few times to good advantage. PMGAS, DH begorrah~!

 

Robert F's picture

Submitted by Robert F (not verified) on

Johnny Miller isn't teaching the PPGS, he promotes rotational swing theory. And, popping up AFAP (As Fast As Possible) happens AFTER impact. Johnny Miller is really talking about people who jump forward and up before they've actually made contact with the ball.

Wayne Coolidge, M.Ed.'s picture

Submitted by Wayne Coolidge,... (not verified) on

I have more advice which is consider giving massage gift certificates as an easy and much appreciated "splurge".  In fact masage is much more than a feel good activity, it is much more therapeutic than most people realize both physically and mentally / emotionally..

Dick Lee's picture

Submitted by Dick Lee (not verified) on

 Lynn

As Monk would say, "It's a blessing, and a curse."

You make Surge and all of us proud,
Dick

glengolfer's picture

Submitted by glengolfer (not verified) on

Surge

I had a similar problem with my rotor cuff, however it was the left shoulder.  I slipped in the shower and hit my shoulder on the shower wall.  I could not lift my left arm above my waist.  However I still could make the the limited turn 3/4 swing.  Found out that I had a detached tendon.  Doctor thought he could reconnect it but said I could continue to play until the operation.  In a little over 2 weeks I had lowered my Index by 4.1 (I play golf 4 times a week).  I then had the operation to re-attach the tendon.
The bad news was he found two large tears in the rotor cuff and could not re-attach the tendon.  The good new was that I would be not able to play golf for 6 weeks while I went into rehab.  If he could have attached the tendon, I would been unable to play for 6 months.  Rehab was hard, but I do have use of the arm, but it was hard on my golf game.  I am  just now getting my game back together.  Thank you for your swing method.

 

Jack Hill's picture

Submitted by Jack Hill (not verified) on

Robert, I would like to expand on that and say that the problems all golfers have with their results using any swing (even the best pros) are because they aren´t actually, properly performing their swing !! :-)

Steve Smith's picture

Submitted by Steve Smith on

The furtherance of damage is not solely from engaging the damaged muscles in deceleration. (Wish it was because that would be a very easy problem to solve by just letting the arms swing up without restriction).

Any joint with existing damage can be further damaged just by moving the attached limb to it's limits in the opposite direction of the injury.

Engaging the muscles that control that joint in deceleration can cause injury to those muscles and tendons and that should indeed be avoided (and was probably what started the injury in the first place).

Once the damage is already done it is not only engaging those muscles in an attempt to decelerate that causes further injury but even the stretching of that joint opposite of the injury with no deceleration engagement at all. No one would take a freshly sprained ankle and grab the foot and turn it in the same direction that caused the sprain, but that is what we are trying to do to the back of the shoulder in a golf swing.

The greatest stress from stretching against the back of the shoulder socket, totally independent of any muscle engagement, is after impact while the shoulders are still relatively (or perfectly) parallel to the target line and the arm is extending across the chest. The higher the speed and the greater the force in that direction of travel, the more it will further injure the joint.

For example, in my case I can do anything with my right arm with full range of motion and at any speed I am capable of producing as long as that arm remains on it's proper side of my head. I can make a fast pitch softball style throw at high speed with no problem at all because the finish in that throw stays on the right side of my head putting no strain on the damaged shoulder.

Unfortunately ANY good golf swing requires that arm to continue across the center line of the chest after impact. If the injury was minor, such as strained muscles, some rest, and stretching in that direction could improve that range of motion but once the damage to the back of the joint is extensive even slow stretching in that direction  may not only give limited results but further damage the injury to the back of the socket.

It's not all bad however. With this swing, and my injury, there is no chance I am going to let my right arm continue around into the SBG. I just have to walk a fine line between pulling out to early for any success and staying down with my shoulders parallel to the target line after impact long enough to hurt me.

Steve Smith's picture

Submitted by Steve Smith on

 Have a good game tomorrow Dick!

I tried to play today. Not making enough birdies even though I wasn't doing anything all that badly. Seemed to figure out a way to flub some easy birdie chances. Just mostly lack of focus on some eagle chips that I took for granted and ended up with pars where it should have been an automatic birdie.

One lapse in concentration and this game will bite you.

Jack Hill's picture

Submitted by Jack Hill (not verified) on

Lynn, no curse at all.   The more you give the more you will receive, most times in different ways. 
That is the law of life and it NEVER fails. So be on the look out for all that will be coming your way, hopefully in golf.  :-)

Yesterday I beat a long hitter by 6 strokes over 18 holes. His drives were easily 50 - 70 yards longer than mine, but I caught up by hitting very straight fairway shots (vertical swing of course) and then following up with what I learnt from Kenny Knox´s short game series, plus some really good putts.

It was a great day in beautiful autumn weather, temp 16°C at 8.15 a.m. teeing off on hole 1, rising to 25°C at midday when finishing hole 18.

PMG and enjoy every minute !!

Rhig1's picture

Submitted by Rhig1 (not verified) on

Surgites - Good weather is coming. If any of you get near Savannah, Ga, look me up in the phone directory if you want to play golf. My wife plays also if you guys have a wife that plays. Doc has my email address, you can get it from him so we can set things up ahead of time. Dick Higgins

MikefromKy Go Bama. Go Irish's picture

Submitted by MikefromKy Go B... (not verified) on

Robert

Was it the girl from the morning drive ? Long black hair, long nice legs all the way up to her hips. She has been on with Martin as of late very nice to look at.

Dick Lee's picture

Submitted by Dick Lee (not verified) on

 Steve

Unfortunately, you are so right there.

As I learned in the Marine Corps, everything that can go wrong will go wrong, and a whole lot of the stuff that can't go wrong will still go wrong.

Some days the only choice we get to make is whether we cry about it or not.

But, tomorrow is a new day, all over again.  Do you ever feel like you're living that movie Groundhog Day?

I do,
Dick

Robert F's picture

Submitted by Robert F (not verified) on

I just want to avoid Lee's Lesions.

Have fun learning the new course today, Dick.

Lynn42's picture

Submitted by Lynn42 (not verified) on

Surge,

Very relevent topic for me today.  We discussed it yesterday on the blog.  Unlike Bob I don't have a medical issue, but I can only comfortably get to about a little past 9 o'clock vertically in the BUS.  If I go beyond that my left knee caves in or my left arm starts to break down.

I'm sure I lose a little distance, but once I figured out that increased accuracy more than made up for any distance lost, the tradeoff was well worth it.  Yes, I still overreach on occasion to try to get those extra yards and less than great results remind me pretty quickly not to do it.

Perfect example today:  A friend and I were playing a match play round.  He's at least 50 yards farther off the tee normally, so I was feeling the pressure being one up on him going into 16th hole which is a long dogleg right with a brook and brush about 15 yard in front of the green.  I reached back for a little extra on my tee shot and topped badly about 20 yardsand left myself in short rough 10 yards short of the fairway and about 150 yards behind my friend's drive.  As you always say, "Forget about it, nobody cares, just hit the next one right." 

I hit a hybrid out of the rough around the corner in front of the trouble, wedged into the green and 2 putted for a bogie.  He shanked his wedge just over the trouble and scrambled for a bogie.

We tied the last 2 holes, par and bogie.  I finished the day 1 up.  Thanks to you, Surge, I'm learning to play within myself and not let the bad shots ruin a round.  Maybe I'm just getting wiser in my old age, but you deserve credit for making me see it.  Thank you. ;0)  

Steve Smith's picture

Submitted by Steve Smith on

Just came in from working on my flat bed trailer and looked at the leader board.
Looks like Harrington went unconscious today.
Feel bad about DJ's play. Maybe something will click pretty soon.

Lynn42's picture

Submitted by Lynn42 (not verified) on

Moi??? ( btw... that's not moment of inertia)  Lay it on thick??  Perish the thought.  Just trying to tell it like it is.  Lee's Legion of losers?  Wait, I resemble that remark.  No, hold it, scratch that.

Well, you know what I mean.  Good luck tomorrow. 0))

Wayne Coolidge, M.Ed.'s picture

Submitted by Wayne Coolidge,... (not verified) on

Steve Smith is correct in describing the follow - through as problematic and usually more painful than the BUS. It is not the acceleration phase of an athletic movement that typically results in injury but the de acceleration phase that is the most traumatic. Putting the breaks on a biomechanical force is more stressful than creating it. Jumpers are hurt on the landing, throwers do more damage after the ball is released etc. With athletes I train the "negative" or de acceleration phase of specific athletic movements to help the body dissipate peripheral forces more efficiently. It absolutely helps with injury prevention. I will thinl about a golf specific protocol.

I also will think about Lynn's issue with with losing clubhead speed with the BUS stopping in the 9:00 O'clock range. I know that power will be increased with training and suspect that velocity will increase with a little mental imagery. After you ring the bell at the top think a little more ballistically. When training the lat. pulldown I ask clients to put a little more "spark" into the start of the movement. They are asked to resist the upward "negative" piece but to accelerate more aggressively on the pull down. Those techniques can be used in the Surge Swing just be carefull about pulling out of your mechanics trying to be too agressive.

Jack Hill's picture

Submitted by Jack Hill (not verified) on

Lynn, excellent news of your round and very uplifting to know that your patience with yourself paid off for a satisfying final result.
All us Surgites are working to perfect our golf which to a great degree involves how well we manage to control our inner self.
Well done!!  And I endorse your thanks to Surge !!

Robert F's picture

Submitted by Robert F (not verified) on

DJ had one really bad hole, and no particularly good holes. The biggest difference between his play and Harrington's, though, was that DJ had 33 putts and Harrington 22 (including dropping one from almost 75 feet on the 17th).

Lynn42's picture

Submitted by Lynn42 (not verified) on

Steve

I can sure relate to all of those drawbacks, especially # 3.  The man who taught me the game nicknamed me Arnie because of that finish...lol.

T Medley's picture

Submitted by T Medley (not verified) on

 DH.

Happy St Paddies to you as well. Ours is this Saturday. I have a bit of the Irish blood from my mothers side along with a bit of English.

Here's to a long life and a merry one
A quick death and an easy one
A pretty girl and an honest one
A cold beer and another one!
For each petal on the shamrock
This brings a wish your way-
Good health, good luck, and happiness
For today and every day.

Steve Smith's picture

Submitted by Steve Smith on

Yeah,I never pay much attention to how someone's score stacks up against a leader that went unconscious. Being tied for 138th at the moment tells more of the story of how the course is playing.

Steve Smith's picture

Submitted by Steve Smith on

 Well, a little like Groundhog day except that Bill Murray got just a little more talented every day.

Of course that's the whole meaning of the movie. If we actually used each and every day to better ourselves we could accomplish so much more than we do.

Jon in Lincolnshire's picture

Submitted by Jon in Lincolnshire (not verified) on

Had real up & down round today. 1st six holes off the T awful ! even hit the wrong fairway 4 times (not funny as its a tree lined course) but recovered each time to score. Then it clicked, turning to far ! back to a 3/4 turn  and bingo rest of round fairways & greens , scored 39 points 82 strokes 3 under handicap . The swing works when you follow the rules . Thanks Surge looking to be a 12 by the end of the season

Robert Meade's picture

Submitted by Robert Meade (not verified) on

Glen,
I had a client the other day with a simular tear and heal in his right shoulder. It was not a seperation but a tear and in the same manner they did not opperate and just let it heal as is. He's fine now but it did take a long time to heal (over a year). Massaging his right shoulder I could really feel the difference from one shoulder to the other. He was a marathon runner and he agreed with me that as it heals we need to gradually stretch and work on mobility. Though never the same we can learn to live with it in most cases and still be active and engaged I sports such as golf. We work within our limits as Surge said. I have a torn right bicept that I never did anything with doctor wise. It dosen't limit me at all and it is only noticable if compared to the other bicept.
BTW, I will again recommend massage as a viable addtion to anyones recovery from many injuries. I feel it is the most under utilized form of rehab out there. Being a therapist now for nearly 13 years I have helped many people get relief and speed recovery time.

Dick Lee's picture

Submitted by Dick Lee (not verified) on

 Lynn

Nice job pal.  It always makes the long knockers scratch their head when they leave us in the dust on the tee shot, and then there we are on the green with them putting for birdie are par.  I feel sorry for them.

You did us all proud.  Way to shake off that bad shot, and get back in the game.

Dick

MikefromKy Go Bama. Go Irish's picture

Submitted by MikefromKy Go B... (not verified) on

May have something to do with being ranked 150th GIR ,133rd prox to hole @ 38'8"

According to the PGA stats he is ranked 6 in putting this weak 124th in scoring @ 71.48.

Hold the faith he will get it going.

Dick Lee's picture

Submitted by Dick Lee (not verified) on

 Steve

If this welding gig does not work out for you, I think you have a future as a pastor.  Maybe you could get Doc to be your music pastor.  I bet the two of you would be famous TV ministers in six months.

I am hitting the rack guys, up in six hours, starting all over again.

Dreaming of birdies and eagles, and no ducks,
Dick

Henri's picture

Submitted by Henri on

One area I am confused about is the down-swing with an iron. Johnny Miller says amateurs invariably come out of their swings too early. The hips and stomach should track through the hitting zone before going to the finish. The idea of popping up ASAP  seems counter-productive this this tip?

Robert Meade's picture

Submitted by Robert Meade (not verified) on

Wayne and Surge,
Thanks for all this grat advice. The limited 3/4 swing has many advantages to helping us avoid pain and strains. Interestingly as is ocassionally the case, other golf instructors say something that is in harmony with what Surge has taught for years. Last night while watching Martin Hall on the School of Golf he was instructing a student on solving a swing issue by swinging to 10 o'clock (face on) rather than 12 with the hands. Basically a 3/4 swing that would give her more control and straighter shots. It of course would save her back and shoulders from pain and strain in the future too, though it seemed she was still too laid off in the SBG.
Good stuff Wayne, thank you for your help and advice.
PMG pain free.
(and get a massage more often)

Dick Lee's picture

Submitted by Dick Lee (not verified) on

Surge Nation.

Well, it sounds like we had a few folks out there having a great time today.  I ended up having to work all day and just make money.  The young pro who I work with and I are playing the course where the PAT will be held tomorrow.  It will be the first time I've ever played this course.  I will try to find some time tomorrow evening to get online and let you know how to goes.

Keep me and my game in your prayers,
Dick

Steve Smith's picture

Submitted by Steve Smith on

 None of them are good but then again neither is getting someone to push the shoulder back into it's socket.

Fortunately I can make a decent swing with it but when I start going bad it's almost always because I am flinching just after impact, and even before impact, to protect it and I don't even realize I am doing it for a few shots.

Once I realize it and toughen up and swing through the ball it's OK.

Someone asked me last week if it hurt worse when I hit a block or a pull. I told him that neither of those hurt at all. It's the really good swing where my shoulders stay square through impact and with a full release up to the finish that hurts.

Steve Smith's picture

Submitted by Steve Smith on

Surge (and Wayne) did a good job of addressing the issue of right shoulder pain in the back swing.

For me, and I assume others with rotator cuff or shoulder socket problems, that is not the major issue as the back swing is at relatively slow speed. The real strain on the back of the right shoulder comes in the follow through when the club is moving at full speed and is pulling the extended right arm toward and up the forward tree.

Even worse, the better the swing the more the strain as the club and arm reach the end of their rope and try to fold up so the back of the right hand is close to the left ear.

There are a few things to reduce the strain in the follow through and each has a drawback to performance.

1. Let the shoulders open more at impact than normal so the right arm won't be reaching across the chest at high speed as much after impact.

Drawback: Very easy to pull off of the ball causing mishits, slices, and hooks.

2. Don't swing very hard so the club momentum after impact is less.

Drawback: Having less distance.

3. Let the club reach the tree but make no attempt to go any higher into the finish than is necessary.

Drawback: There will be no "T Finish" as the club will stop before the right hand ever gets near the left ear and will appear more like an Arnold Palmer finish.

Lynn42's picture

Submitted by Lynn42 (not verified) on

Thanks, Jack.  The guy I played today suggest match play last week week and we've played 3 rounds like that.  It's something different and we've had fun with it.  I'm up 2-1, but he killed me 5 and 4 monday.

He asked about my vertical swing monday so I explained it and gave him a few tips.  What a dummy I am.  He's now hitting lasers with his irons. ;0)

He's hitting his 6 oron off the tee on a long par 3 while I taking out my 3 wood, so having a short game that is on is the only hope I have.  I'm thinking he didn't really need my help, but he asked and I offered it.  Ever notice Surgites are like that?  It must be a curse.  ;0) 

Lynn42's picture

Submitted by Lynn42 (not verified) on

Steve, I've got some clicking going on in my right shoulder for some time now.  No idea what it is, but knock on wood, no pain.  Very limited lift in the BUS, but it is what it is.  Getting old is not for sissies.

Robert F's picture

Submitted by Robert F (not verified) on

It's shocking to discover that the problems we all have with results with this swing are because we aren't actually, properly performing the swing. :)

Robert Meade's picture

Submitted by Robert Meade (not verified) on

Smart play and it sounds like you had a fun day on the golf course Lynn.
Way to go pal:)

Lynn42's picture

Submitted by Lynn42 (not verified) on

Dick,

We've got your back.  We have the Surge Nation, Arnie's Army, so why not Dick Lee's Legion. ;0))

Steve Smith's picture

Submitted by Steve Smith on

 In my case it's what I get for always making sure that everybody knew how hard I could throw every time I had the chance, whether I was warmed up or not.

No problem at all in the BUS though. It's only when my arm crosses my chest that's a problem.