Some golfers like to use a forward press before they start their swing. This could be with the putter or any other club in the bag. Paul D'Andrea has been experimenting with a forward press and is seeing some success. He wanted to hear my opinion on whether or not using a forward press to start the swing is a good idea.
Greetings Surge,
I've been a PPGS user for the last 4 years and have played my best golf ever during this period. The problem which has always haunted me is getting the swing started. When I'm playing well everything seems like it's on auto pilot, but when I struggle I seem to get stuck at address not knowing how to start my swing.
I have recently been tinkering with using a forward press in my swing. I've started with the wedges and so far so good. Once I get into my pre-loaded heavy right position I press forward left side and hands and then I begin my backswing. The forward press makes it much easier for me to get into the toe up catcher's mitt position. The rest of the swing remains the same with a limited turn, vertical swing.
My question is, does a forward press work with PPGS? If yes, can you offer some positives, negatives, and tips (especially with the longer clubs) for using the forward press?
Thanks,
Paul D'Andrea
I've never been a fan of using a forward press. I just don't think it gives you the best opportunity for success. Having said that, if something is working for you and helping you get into the right positions, you may want to stick with it.
If adding a forward press helps you swing better, by all means try it. But, ultimately, I wouldn't recommend it.
Keep it vertical,
The Surge
If you can't view the YouTube video above try CLICKING HERE. You must allow popups from this site for the link to work.
Comments
forward press
your video has your shaft with a forward lean about 4 or 5 degrees. It's possible to start the club at 0 lean and press the hands only to the 5 degree level as the key to start the swing. The press can be a subtle move and not include the whole body, knees , etc.
Shank!
Shankapotomus,
Long time buddy. Hope you're well. As others have commented (ie.Neil) some type of movement as a trigger is common and helps many. I don't forward press but do my share of waggling and wiggling particularly as I set up. Once I firm up my grip and am ready I have better results when I just take a deep breath (that's like my zero I guess) and then go. KISS and keep the knees still. Just settle in, breath and fire away. I have been working on having a quicker set up routine and maintaining the same tempo on every swing. Easier said than done but it is coming along.
Surge does have his share of movement before his swing waggling but he is a fast set up and swing and a fast tempo guy. So once he sets his club down at "zero" he goes immediately. that is something I need to get closer to doing. It is those one or two seconds of delay that can screw things up with more thinking.
Watch Don's brief waggles and then how quick he goes after setting the club behind the ball. Don't blink or you'll miss it. It's the same with every club.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmOaQk220nM
Most of us have seen the above sequence but viewing it to see what he does a fraction of a second before take away is revealing.
Press
I agree and thanks. Good to be back. Two ankle replacements on the same ankle has been an eight month challenge. Prevented me from loading right till a few weeks ago. I'm shortening my pre shot stuff and incorporating some Dufner waggle. I use a press on putts but its a hands move only and slight.
Keep it coming Surge.
Wrist action
In addition to what Robert M said, I'd add that the problem is that this sort of motion with the hands tends to get you into violating rule 1, the best wrist action is no wrist action. That shift forward with the hands has to include a change in the wrist angle, and once it starts changing, it's going to promote further change, and that's going to let a lot of trouble find its way into your swing.
press
I'm not saying I have this issue. I have a waggle that settles into a 4 degree forward lean at address. It's pretty static. Verified by Skypro. What I was proposing was on Surges video, he waggles and sets to a 4 or 5 degree lean. This is almost a press. He then keeps his wrist locked. OK, I'm a believer in no or almost no conscience wrist action. The club momentum is enough.
This brings up the subject of Skypro. Is anyone else using it for the PPGS?
The Press
Surge, Lots of good points you made, but every one needs an action of some
sort to start, even Harvey Pennick recommended an action of some sort as
he said the brain finds it difficult to start from zero and you admitted that you squeeze down on your knees a millisecond prior to the lift. Iv'e seen lots of good golfers use all sorts of mechanisms to start their swing and some of them very weird. I beleive the starting point is the KEY to consistency in the golf swing, ie once the brain gets the message to lift, its easier when something else has triggered this. I use to forward press and believe you are correct in your analogy and have change this to a slight press into the ground, this squeezes my knees just like you do, then I'm away.
Press into the ground
Neil,
I can't press into the ground before I swing because it sets where the bottom of my arc is going to be - behind and below the ball. Can you spell FAT!!!!! I only lower the club to where the leading edge is just below the center of the ball. Then, it will (hopefully) be just at the bottom of the ball when I swing, IF I don't lift up or go down while swinging.
Kevin McG
Squeeze
Neil,
I agree and find your thoughts on the brain and the trigger very true. Not delaying after that trigger is key too.
No more press
I used to do a forward press and even continued it for a while after starting the PPGS. I stopped doing it when I realized that it causes a problem that was difficult to figure out. If I set the club behind the ball, get set, and then press forward slightly with my hands, one of two things happens: either my left (forward) wrist bows slightly or my right elbow straightens slightly, lifting it up above the left elbow. Neither of these conditions, IMO, conforms to the PPGS. Both of them cause my shots to go off target; bowing the left wrist slightly opens the club face and straightening the right elbow causes it to close slightly.
I use my tempo thought as a start trigger - 1 . 2 . 3 . Go. On 1, the club stops behind the ball - Surge's 0 point. On 2, the club starts the BUS. On 3, my turn has stopped, lifting continues. GO is the bump and FUS. So, 1-2-3 gets me from MSP to the top of the BUS and GO is the FUS. I don't start with 0 (zero) because that is two syllables and I'm trying to keep everything to one syllable. I get confused otherwise.
Unfortunately, even with all this information and knowledge, I won't be playing any for the rest of the year due to an accident that left me with a tear in the left shoulder, hyper-extension of both knees, and injury to my spine in the t2-t5 area. As it stands, my doctor says 6-8 weeks of therapy before I can try swinging again. We haven't decided on shoulder surgery yet.
I guess I'll be playing "mind" games for the foreseeable future.
Mind games
Kevin,
Very sorry to hear about your accident Kevin. I hope that your period of having to play "mind games' is a short one.
Dave
Mind Games
Thanks, Dave. About all I can do for the time being is practice putting; I'm getting pretty good at inside 10 feet.
Negative to Positive
Kevin, what a bummer about your accident, hope it heals quick, but in the mean time you can use the break as an advantage in putting practise.
When I was playing my lousy long game and seeing a myriad of coaches, I spent hours chipping and putting and got to a point where my chipping has became my saviour when in trouble. You can do likewise with putting, hoping to hear some good stories about it, soon.
Mind Games
Also sorry to hear about your accident Kevin. Best wishes for a speedy recovery. Enjoy the mind games, and remember the eloquent words of Dan Quayle, "It's a terrible thing to waste one's mind"
No More Press
Kevin,
Sorry to hear of your injuries, bummer indeed! As one with a re-constructed right shoulder, I know the frustration that it causes,not to mention the discomfort. Hopefully you will have a speedy recovery, whatever is decided surgery wise.
Mind games are as important as long drives. Course management, putting, chipping, game plans etc. Just today I practiced putting after finishing a round. Made a small putting aid two days ago, and it got it's first outing today. Results? Much better distance control on putts. My putting was accurate but either too long or too short. Now much, much better : - ) My wife and I had our usual competition on the practice green, me with my putter and her with her 'putter' an old 4iron! I kid you not! She sank one putt from 18 paces away and another of 12 paces!!! Boy she is hard to beat.
I will try out your hovering the club about the equator of the ball with my irons and see how it goes. Today my irons were red hot. On the 18th hole where I usually just make it over the creek, today I cleared it by 60yds.No run at all due to the muddy conditions. Decided to go way down the grip on my 5iron and nailed the green pin high for the first time. A good day once I 'sloooowed down' ; - ) Course crowded and we were slotted in.This meant rushing. Once settled though and "UP.....AND......UP" blissful results.
Look forward to hearing your mind game results in the weeks to come. You will be in our thoughts.
DH in sunny but windy NZ : - )
Fast recovery
Hearing your situation is one more reminder for me to not complain about my tiny aches and pains. Wow, you have a list of injuries there. Sure hope your rehab and PT work speeds your healing Kevin.
I went to a PT for the last two months for my shoulders and neck. Chronic stuff don't pity me. A bunch of 'itusis' that many on the blog have and much worse than mine. I consider myself "in good shape for the shape I'm in" as my Dad would say. But I'm actually doing very well and am no longer going to the PT but am continuing the stretches and exercises that he gave me. It's all helping.
Hope you recover without complication and in the mean while keep on putting Kevin.
Mind Games...
Kevin, let's see if I can get this one done & posted before I hit another wrong button. I'm sorry to hear of your accident, I hope for a speedy & complete recover for you,my friend.
I've been playing mind games with my swing for a few months now & having great results. My main problem as always been that one or two holes that I allowed to balloon and thus destroy my round and confidence. I have been rehashing my ppgs swing theory and believe I have it down pretty solid. Now I'm concentrating on the mental side of things a lot more. I go to sleep at night listening to some nice classical music and work on my visualization, which has always been a weakness. You know that, see the hazard, hit into the hazard aspect of things. Seeing the ball hit my targets now instead.
As you recover I hope, you enjoy looking inside the mental part of your game, I'm off to bed now,myself ( I hope, but that's a different story) I was 3 under at the turn last night (actually day before yesterday) when I dozed off.
Once again,my best to you!
Mind Games
Hi boogmc,
You hit a wrong button? It must be the day for that : - ( Before going to the course this morning, I checked my e-mail. I was getting rid of all the junk mail etc, and managed to delete my whole In-Box!!! Please don't ask me to repeat my comments at the time ; - )
Keep on getting more consistent shots on EVERY hole and enjoying your game.
DH
Starting the backswing
Trying to start the swing with your hands might be a problem.
One of my golf buddies has missed a lot of golf this year due to illness. He is normally a good player but has really been struggling with finding his golf swing. He felt like he was missing something but had no idea what it was. We watched his swing and suggested that he start the backswing with his body instead of his hands. That's all it took to fix him and he is playing great now.
The " in the mitt and up the tree" thoughts, were vital for me when converting to an upright swing. When playing. I need some kind of short form tempo thought that starts the body and the club moving together and ensures that the BUS is completed. I think that a mental trigger works better with this swing than a physical one. My trigger is a very simple one..."SLOW... AND." Thinking SLOW starts the body turn and arm lift to move the rear index finger to the AND ( "ring the bell") position.
Forward Press
I used a forward press for some period of time but like Don & others said I found that it ended up with too many angles that never seemed to be the same for every swing. I have started using a slight "waggle" and with my driver I find that lifting the club slightly off the ground acts as my "back swing starter". I have been trying to figure out how to "hover" my irons slightly above the ground so I really like Kevin's idea of placing the edge of the iron in the center of the ball. As a slight amount of centrifugal motion should place the edge of the iron just a the bottom of the ball.
Good comments everyone.
Byron
Feel and sight
From what I can tell I use feel at set up to determine my exact impact spot more than I use sight (not always a good thing).
My best ball striking (by a mile) is when the lie allows me to let the club rest on the ground right behind the ball. From that point I can return the club to that spot at impact without using sight at all (or at least very, very little).
My worst ball striking is when I can't let the club rest and return it to that spot, such as in hazards or when the ball is sitting up in the grass.
For that reason the most preferred lie of all to me is hard pan, followed by firm fairways with very, very short grass. It's almost impossible for me to mess up on those very thin lies.
BTW: Went to a different course today, Southern Gayles in Athens, AL. and shot a 73 with 3 birdies and 4 bogeys. Not too bad considering I had a few misreads on "easy" birdie putts and pretty much hit my full wedges like crap. Hit my driver and woods very well, mid to long irons fairly well, and chipped and putted OK.
Off of golf topic: I thought some of you might like this story.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDi4hBWsvkY
Thank you
Off topic but quite a story. My wife and I cried and were touched deeply.
Thanks Steve.
Another thank you
Steve: I greatly appreciate you sharing the you-tube link - what a special treat! You made my day and the whole rest of the week! Take care, R2
Oh Sweet Lorraine
Thanks for sharing the video. Simply wonderful!!!!!
Thanks, Steve
Thanks, Steve. Just got back from spending a week in La. with my 94 year old mother-in-law who lost her husband in Dec so this really hits home. I was doing some late night catching up on the blog and this was a perfect way to end my night and hit the hay. ;0))