I received this E-mail from Gaetan, who was one of the students in our first PPGS Golf School in November at The PGA Golf Center for Learning and Performance in Port St. Lucie, Florida. Gaetan references speaking with Greg at the School and asking for clarification on forearm rotation in the takeaway. Greg MacDonell, PGA, is my head instructor and has been with me since 1987 when I started as the Director of Instruction for Sea Pines Plantation. I was home based at Harbour Town GL and Greg was the head professional. Greg and I have been together since then teaching the PPGS. To know how to answer this question, I called Greg to get clarification of his explanation at the school. So now, let's look at Gaetan's question and clear things up.
'In Port St.Lucie, the very first thing Greg corrected me on was avoiding the arm rotation during the takeaway. Without a slight CW (clock wise) forearm rotation, the face of the club closes slightly during the takeaway. Greg told me that this was the right way to 'toe up' in the mitt.
For me this made sense as rotating CW the forearms just make the club shaft go toward a lay off position even before I go up the tree. When I rotate my forearms CW I end up having to fight seriously with my shaft position at the top of the swing. This forearms rotation makes the shaft go naturally toward the 10:00 -11:00. I do not want to have to fight to achieve between the 12:00 ' 11:00.
Now on the blog, other guys do not agree at all with this and they call it 'toe down' position which is contrary to Don's 'toe up' vocabulary.
So clarification on this point also would be great!
Thanks again!
Gaetan'
Well here goes. I think you misunderstood Greg in his explanation of the proper arm rotation in the takeaway into the mitt. I say this because you write in the first sentence “without a slight CW (clock wise) forearm rotation” implies that you are not rotating the arms and thus would be taking the club away 'toe down' and shut. You reference that other bloggers do not agree with the 'Toe Down' as being contrary to my 'Toe Up' takeaway into the mitt, which is correct. This 'Toe Down' takeaway into the mitt would actually increase the odds of, when lifting up the tree, the arms would, in fact, over rotate and flip the club deep and laid off.
Here is a visualization test. Stand straight up and raise both hands like taking an oath. You see both palms are perpendicular to the ground as is your torso/spine. Now, holding the arms in the same position relative to your torso, bend at the waist assuming your setup position. Notice the hands do not change position to your torso. Your palms are now at the same angle as your torso/spine, around 30 degrees from perpendicular and somewhat facing the ground. Put a club in your hands in a square grip and you would see the club face is in the same angle as the palm of your lower hand.
Now, while still in the address position with hands up, lower your right or back arm and hand down to the mitt position. Notice that the palm is in the same angle to the ground and spine as it was in the oath position and still at 30 degrees short of perpendicular. This palm facing the ground would be the same angle as the club face would be when in the mitt. This palm and clubface down change for perpendicular happens because the torso bends over to get into the address position. What the torso does, so must the arms and hands to remain in balance.
The point is, there must be rotation of the arms, hands and club in the takeaway toe up into the mitt. The key is that the torso is bent over at address and also in the backswing. From this bent over position, the rotation of the arms and clubface DO NOT REACH 90 degrees where the palm and clubface are straight up perpendicular to the ground. They are around 30 degrees short of perpendicular to the ground and are very close to matching your spine/back angle and that's what Greg was pointing out to you.
Check out the picture in the Foundations Manual on page 98 in the section titled 'Takeaway and Turn.' I was already looking at it when I called Greg. He referenced this picture and page from memory as he uses it so much in lessons to show and clarify this point about arm and club rotation in the takeaway and backswing.
Greg said to me, notice that the heel of the club is closer to the perpendicular white line than the toe, which shows the face and palms are not perfect toe up. (Note: if the palms and the clubface were toe up on the line, they would have 'over' rotated relative to the spine and would, from there, keep rotating in the lift up the tree to laid off and deep). This picture shows the club face leading edge and my back are on the same angle. That is what makes this 30 degrees short of perpendicular, palm and clubface down position in the mitt so important. It happens because the torso and arms stay in dynamic balance. Any more rotation and they would be out of balance.
There has to be arm and club rotation toe up in the backswing. The key is knowing that the hands and club do not completely rotate to arms and clubface perpendicular/90 degrees to the ground. They rotate only 60 degrees, as the picture shows, because that is in dynamic balance. From there, the lifting of the arms and club up the tree will flow to the vertical 12:00 o'clock light club position at the top of the backswing. The lift is more natural, flowing and controlled.
You have to concentrate and, as you said, 'fight' to make sure you, 'make the club stay vertical during the lift.' The slightest over rotation past vertical and you now have gravity and momentum pulling the club backward, which is laid off. The key is you have to make it happen as 'you have to swing the club so it does not swing you.'
I hope this clears things up on takeaway rotation into the mitt toe up, is up. But it is not all the way to perpendicular at 90 degrees.
The Surge!