Toe And Heel Bounce

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 01:00 -- Don Trahan

Today we are going to talk a bit about a subject that many golfers have never heard of, let alone understand. The subject is called "Bounce" and it applies primarily to your wedges. It came up recently in a question that Isaac Simmons sent me.

"There is a lot of instruction on using the heel bounce on pitches and sand shots. When should you use the toe bounce? How do you pitch off hard pan?"

If you look at the bottom of a sand wedge, for example, you will see the front edge, or leading edge, at the very bottom of the face. But then as you look back toward the back of the club, to where the head thickens, this is the area club designers call the bounce. Most modern wedges have some degree of bounce and some even have the degrees of bounce stamped on the head.

If a club has been made with bounce, then it is likely to have two distinct bounce areas, i.e. the toe bounce and the heel bounce. You still with me? I know this can sound confusing so be sure to watch the video where we actually focus in on these parts of the club.

Now let's get to Isaac's question. The key here is that the lie and how far you need to carry the ball will determine whether you use toe bounce or heel bounce. I cover this in more detail in the video, but I can summarize the various situations here:

  • Toe Bounce is generally used on a downhill lie or side-hill lie around the green where you do not have a lot of distance from the edge of the green to the hole. This is because when you hit the ball off the toe (and not the sweet spot), it will come off the club dead
  • Heel Bounce is normally used when you have a regular lie or an uphill lie where you have ample room to land the ball on the green and let it run out.
  • Off of hardpan around the green, I would tend to favor using Heel Bounce in almost every situation. However, if you are tight to the hole, you may need to use Toe Bounce and, let me tell you, this is one of the hardest shots in golf to make on a consistent basis. So practice this one a lot!

If you want to go beyond what I can cover in 8-9 minutes during a daily video, I recommend that you get my comprehensive video on this subject called Situational Shots: On The Course. In it, I show you how to hit 14 of the most common and difficult shots you can face during a round. If you master these shots, I can almost guarantee that you'll knock 4,5, maybe even 6 shots a round off your scores. Having these skills can keep a bad shot from turning your hole into a double or triple bogey nightmare because you'll be able to get the ball back into play on the very next shot.

Keep it vertical!

The Surge

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Comments

Robert F's picture

Submitted by Robert F (not verified) on

Not a problem. Glad we can help. It should be much easier to follow responses now that you're registered with Disqus.

T Medley's picture

Submitted by T Medley (not verified) on

Probably the air chipper you have in mind, but with several different attachments as far as scraper/chisel tips. The needle attachment is actually a complete head attachment with a dozen or so 1/8" or so needle rods banging in and out just as the single chisel attachments would do.

If I am right on your ID grinder, we call it a rotary air tool with what is called burring tips available in several sizes and shapes. It is a high rpm tool which holds burring tips, a variety of small abrasive grinding stones and a variety of sizes in sanding drums.

MikefromKy Go Bama. Go Irish's picture

Submitted by MikefromKy Go B... (not verified) on

I generally change my own grips but now with my MOI'D irons I will take them back to my builder to change so they get put back weighted correctly. To much work for me. They were weighted out by weight and assigned to specific clubs by weight. I have the blue print for my clubs but I will leave to a professional.  

Harbor Freight has good tools at good prices and generally have life time warranty.

Steve Smith's picture

Submitted by Steve Smith on

As Robert said, Surge has said to not be too concerned with the Vs. That will pretty much take care of itself.

In the Manual (which you should buy if you haven't already) it shows in detail step by step how to build your proper grip.

In regards to the V it says this:

"If the back of your left hand is facing the target with the thumb positioned down the right-center of the grip, your left-hand V will point to the right of your chin, toward the inside of your right shoulder".

From the pictures in the manual, as well as any videos of Surge hitting balls that I have looked at, that is exactly where the V points with the thumb in it's proper position.

Robert F's picture

Submitted by Robert F (not verified) on

DJ finished really well today, sinking a 10.5' putt to save parr on 9, and sticking his tee shot on 7 4' from the hole. He also played the Bear Trap at even par. Never a bad thing. A better ball striking round tomorrow and he'll be right in there. The field is pretty tightly bunched.

Steve Smith's picture

Submitted by Steve Smith on

I've only played a couple of those, and none of the Robert Trent Jones Golf Trail courses. They are on my wish list.
The number one rated course on that list is only about 40 or 50 miles from here.
Surprising that it is number 1 because everybody around here seems to think it's too hard to be enjoyable, but then some people are idiots. ;-)
I want to play Ross Bridge from the tips at 8200 yards but I better "man up" before I try it. Ha ha!

Robert Meade's picture

Submitted by Robert Meade (not verified) on

I normally play agressively. I just do my best to be realistically agressive. By that I mean that my course management has gotten more logical and I will for example take more club not gauging my shot based on what my best shot would be with that club over the lake or trap but what will get me over or close without over swinging. I like the expression "agressively conservative". It means taking an agressive confident swing at the smartest target. Sometimes that target is not the flag. Sometimes the best angle into the flag is not even the fairway. There is one hole at Los Prados that offers the best angle into the green if you miss on the far left of the fairway and even long and left is better. One thing is certain and I think you have said something similar more than once, we need to go with complete confidence at our target choice. So even on the ocassions when i need to play conservatively I don't think in terms of playing "safe" but agressively go for that spot with a narrow focus on exactly where I want the ball to land and end up.

Dragonhead's picture

Submitted by Dragonhead (not verified) on

A well worthwhile video for me today Surge. It explained the hardpan one. I am getting pretty good around the green with my SW and chipping with all the clubs from LW/SW/PW/right up to the 4iron, rescue, and the woods.
Need to hone the LW more. Have been hitting it OK, but need to follow the instructions in this video from deep rough around the green and hard pan. Explaining the experimental factor again, I will be trying some of my old high and I mean high wedge shots. A handy weapon to have in my armoury where tall trees are aplenty and close : - )
Doc Griffin, A wise man indeed, Hahahaha. Success is only a fit away. Does a fit of laughter count? I am still chuckling. A wise man knows when to fight and when to run to fight another day. Have a great start to your month. DH in a sodden (I could spell it slightly different if I was a naughty boy ; - ) and wet Wgtn NZ

Steve Smith's picture

Submitted by Steve Smith on

 I have ground different wedges that I had on several occasions.

IMO it's not the best thing for everybody and requires pretty good ball striking to use it to the intended effect.

The last thing one would want to do is to intend to use either the heel or the toe bounce and mess up and hit the ball on the opposite end of the club, especially off of hard pan.
The leading edge of the opposite end will be off of the ground and, if hit there, will skull the ball across the green.

Using the heel bounce technique also leaves much less room for error for a shank.

I would advise less than accurate ball strikers to proceed with caution about grinding their clubs.

Robert F's picture

Submitted by Robert F (not verified) on

Even if you needed the flop at muni, you couldn't use it off the dirt around most of the greens. :) On the other side, I've punched plenty of chips into a hill side to get them to bounce up and land softly. :)

Robert Meade's picture

Submitted by Robert Meade (not verified) on

Absolutely Mike. And likely few are interested or have the life style to become even part time fitters or even as a hobbie. I have both the interest and the situation that allows for gradual tinkering. My wife has mutually agreed to let me use a corner of the garage for my work bench and tools. I will add the needed tools gradually.
I already am set up for changing out grips. It's fun and easy.
Next will be the grinder. A decent one for under $70 at Lowes;

http://www.lowes.com/pd_78808-...
Next will be the lie/loft
And I have found a decent loft/lie machine for under $$350

http://www.golfsmith.com/produ...

What I really want to get into is the changing out of shafts.
Won't happen over night and I am buy no means Mr. money so a bit by bit process. And yes I would love to go to school and in time become a PPGS qualified fitter. There would be a huge market in Las Vegas as there are no qualified do all fitters anywhere in Nevada. That is a little shocking considering that especially in the LV valley here golf is big and there are dozens of really good golf courses. That's why I had to go to California to get fit last year.

stevec7278's picture

Submitted by stevec7278 (not verified) on

Thanks for the support.  I'm looking forward to getting some tips now & then from the Surge Nation as I get myself up to speed with the PPGS = Straight down the middle - NOW THAT'S A RUSH after all those years of FRUSTRATION.  This year it is going to be: Confidently Lock in the PPGS Swing & work on the Short Game (Kenny Knox) & Putting (E Harvey Ward).

Steve Smith's picture

Submitted by Steve Smith on

Yeah we call those "pinging rods" and rarely use them except for metal stress relief. The slender cone shaped metal grinding points for the "pencil grinder' or "burr grinder" or "rotary air tool" or "ID grinder" can really move a lot of metal in a tight place. Can also have you picking small metal burrs out of your clothes for weeks. ;-)

Dick Lee's picture

Submitted by Dick Lee (not verified) on

Surge Nation

I hope any of you who live in the areas hit by the storms last night are ok.

Let us hear from you on how you are doing.

The folks in those areas are in my prayers,
Dick

Hal's picture

Submitted by Hal (not verified) on

Robert,
Thanks for the comment. As I told you I ground my 56-10* and my 56-14* sand wedge down as per KK suggested. I went back and ground some more off my 56-10* and now I am happy with the way it works. A pro friend of mine has retired and he has a Golfsmith loft/lie machine he is willing to sell. I may negotiate a deal with with him.
Keep up the good work , Robert
Harold, 

MikefromKy Go Bama. Go Irish's picture

Submitted by MikefromKy Go B... (not verified) on

K.I.S.S.

I have a 60* 7* bounce and can hit any shot with it I want.

56 sw 8* bounce can hit any shot I want except bunkers with light fluffy sand on those courses I switch to a 56 with 12* bounce.

A 52 with 8* bounce I have not been carrying because I use my 52 mizuno that came with my irons not sure of the bounce on it.

IMO to start grinding on wedges is beyond the scope of playability for
the majority of us weekend warriors maybe we should stick with the
basics.

Just My Opinion

T Medley's picture

Submitted by T Medley (not verified) on

I still root for him also. I'd like to see him return to his former glory, but it doesn't seem to be happening, Yet.

I always root for DJ, and hope his putting improves as well. I hope both have better rounds over the next 3 days.

I think I'm calling it a night and watching a movie in the rack. I went ahead and ordered an Amazon used copy of the Ben Hogan movie Follow The Sun. It's probably been 30yrs since I last saw it, so I think I'll pop it in tonight.

PMG

Steve Smith's picture

Submitted by Steve Smith on

 Nobody should fall in love with a flop shot but there are some holes where that is the only decent option if you want to get up and down. There are 2 holes at Lil Mole  where the green is sloping away toward the water and on both the less risky shot is a flop shot.

Trying to chip it short and hoping it trickles on and rolls down past the hole but close enough for a legitimate putt is a very risky play. A fairly simple and high percentage soft flop shot is definitely the right play there.

stevec7278's picture

Submitted by stevec7278 (not verified) on

Thank you.  I see you offer quite a few tips to help others with the PPGS - I will be looking forward to hearing your suggestions as I work on my skills this year.  I have lived with a lot of "Golfing Frustration" over the years and I'm really glad I found Don T & his ABSOLUTELY GREAT Internet Training Format. His Enthusiasm & Dedication to the students of his PPGS Training is AWESOME & it is great to be coming on board as another one of his successes.  I am very enthusiastically looking forward to golfing for a long time into the future. I doubt if I would have said that before I discovered Don's PPGS with his comprehensive online Training Format.  I had given up on getting any good advice or training with the "Other Guys", but I didn't know why what they taught wouldn't work for me.  I was enthusiastically On Board with Don's PPGS shortly after I started watching the Videos - Athletically Ready, Body Friendly, Fewer Angles, Physics, Physiology, etc. - He makes it very easy to get enthused about learning it with ROCK SOLID RESEARCH & Professionals to support what he teaches - including other enthusiastic Golfers in the Surge Nation!

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