Best Way to Judge Hand Position at Setup

 I hope I'm not becoming like Hitler, for clicking the Like on your comment about Ben. I don't want to be equated with a man responsible for killing over SIX MILLION people, and trying to rule the world, Just for clicking a Like, or stating that a comment has appeared twice in the blog over a period of two days. Oh my!

Swingsurgeon Tech Crew - A few days ago I offered to get you the daily blogs back to '09. You said you would let me have access to you site to download these to you and I have heard nothing since. Are you still interested as I am sure there alot of Surgites that might appreciate them.

Dick H

Dan, If the fitter you're talking about is Greg Courtnay (http://www.courtnaysgolf.com/ ), there was an Inner Circle member who posted a glowing commentary about working with him just a few days ago.

I try never to be jealous of Okies, but... ;-)

Maybe surge should do a story on how his swing method differs from Moe Norman's since there are some similarities and why he doesn't recommend Moe's swing since he was considered the best ball striker of all time. Granted he seemed to be a savant.

Coach

Nice job pal.  Sounds like those new sticks are getting you broke in.

I am going to keep dreaming about getting a real fitting and new sticks some day.  I have to do it if I am going to get to the next level.  I want to wait until I get a lot more consistent with the swing.  I think it will really pay off for me then.

I know I need the right equipment to do the right job, in golf as in the rest of life.  In the rooms we have a sayings.

If I always do what I have always done,
I will always get what I have always gotten.

Keep it up.
Dick

Pete,

With the driver, unless you're playing the ball really far forward, your hands should be about in line with the ball.

I am sure that it would be. Would it be possible while that is taking place bit by bit, to just post them all on Utube at the SwingSurgeon Utube site under their original titles. That way those of us who wanted, could download and save them, and still reference them to the Utube link for folks asking for specific help or instruction.

Dick Lee:

   ain't keeping stats fun! LOL -- but it sure points out where one needs to improve.

    keep hitting them STRAIGHT and LONG

    Amos

My father has 2 holes in one, my mother has 3. I remember the pro at their course (at a retirement community in the SF Bay Area) lamenting the times he's had to post in the paper so-and-so "hit a hole in one on the 135 yard par three 15th hole with a driver." :) I've holed out a couple times from the fairway, and once that I didn't see because I'd had to hook a 9 iron around a 40 foot pine tree. I walked past the green to look for my ball off the right side, assuming it had bounced and rolled off, and my mother said, "No, Bob, look in the hole."

What about Moe Norman's address?  He says to keep the arms away from his body?: 

Robert - I am almost sure that it would be an aid and that is a no no in tournament play

Dick H

Steve

I totally agree. Another difference in the two swings is the grip its self. The grip runs up the middle of the palms with Moe's grip to allow the shaft club to be aligned with his arms and if I remember correctly that theory called for a different size grip than a standard size grip.

In saying this I am not taking anything away from Moe Norman he was after all and maybe is one of the greatest ball strikers ever. 

After watching the video from yesterday, I tried the Surge's suggestion about standing up before going into your setup. It worked on the range, so I took it to the course. It made a big difference in the solidness of my impact, and most importantly it brought back my ability to strike the ball with the middle of the clubface. It's amazing what makes a difference! That's why I love this game.

Further to my earlier comment, here are a few links to earlier Surge videos you may want to watch. In addition, I suggest that you should have the Driver video series and the Foundations Manual to truly understand this swing and its application to all clubs.

http://www.swingsurgeon.com/Da...

http://www.swingsurgeon.com/Da...

http://www.swingsurgeon.com/Da...

http://www.swingsurgeon.com/Da...

http://swingsurgeon.com/DailyV...

Roger

There are some real scumbags out there in the world.  Sorry for your loss.  I have been on the receiving end of having my home broken into.  I feel your pain.

Some people are only alive because it is against the law to kill them.

Dick

The hands are always in front of the ball when addressed properly, sole of club flat on the ground and the face square to the target line.  The hands also don't move forward or backward as you change clubs as the angle of the hosel changes (loft) and the hands stay pretty much in the same position which is just off the left thigh.

Steve, sorry to hear about your schedule change, hopefully it wont last to long for you. I hope they aren't thinking about doing something like this into the fall of the year, I hate it when I have to RTR from inside the powerhouse.
Boog

Steve Smith:

    I feel your pain Buddy -- "Been there; done that" -- hated it!

    Amos

I've also only seen one hole-in-one and I didn't make it :-(

An Army buddy in Germany, playing his first round of golf in a fierce wind, hit driver on a par-3. The ball wrapped up in the flag, which was standing straight out, and fell into the hole. He turned around, said, "That's the best I'll ever do," headed back to the club house, and never played golf again.

Hi Surge, Ben from Liverpool England here.
Ive been an avid student of your swing for 6 months now and it has defiantly improved my ball striking and lowered my scoring.
I feel like I have the concept of the swing down to a tee ( excuse the pun ! ) but Im struggling with one aspect of it which I hope you can help with.
Ive been studying my swing on video and comparing it to yours, and the issue I have is Im still slightly in the SBG at the top of my backswing. When I do a practise take away before my swing ( like you do ) the club comes to my toe line and is parallel like yours, but when I take my proper swing, the takeaway seems different as much as it doesn’t get to parallel before you go up the tree and is more “inside”, and when I reach the top of my back swing my hands are not by my head like yours, but more round in the SBG, & with the action / reaction theory, my hands at finish are not by my left ear as yours are but more about 6 or 7 inches away.
Initially I thought I was turning to much in the 1 piece takeaway ( dog wagging the tail ) before I lifted, but on checking my video I don’t think I am as the wide knees are stopping this and also, when I try and not turn so much I feel like Im not turning at all . Another image for this problem is that at the top, my left bicep isn’t hitting my chin, its more my shoulder because my arms are more around the back.
Do you know how I can fix this, or can you advise the feeling you should be getting from start of the takeaway to get it parallel before you go up the tree to the top.
One final thought, Im 6 foot 3 and I have checked DJs swing out and his seems slightly different to yours Don, could the height be the issue???
Hope you can help Surge.
Keep it vertical Y’all !
Ben

Appreciate your instructions.  However, I note that they are uaually with irons. I have trouble with the long clubs, particularly the driver, which changes much of what you are teaching. Certainly the downswing can't be as steep as with an iron, nor can the followthru be as quick to the finish. It appears that when watching the pros swing the driver, they allow their arms to pronate before going up to the finish (not popping up like a toaster).   Thanks for the help.
                                                                                Howie

I thought that might be the case, so I thought you'd like to hear that he's been given positively glowing remarks by at least one Surge swinger (I'm not sure if I hope Dick picks up on that aphorism or not).

Good thinking. Is that an ancient Chinese secret. I will have a built in hand position tester. LOL

Robert

As usual, I know the answer.  But I am not sure I know what question was asked.

I like glowing.  I worked around "special weapons" long enough that I can set off those sensors they have at bridges and tunnels.

Dick

Matchim

I have had a half dozen holes in one over the years.  Two of those came while I was playing by myself.  While I am pretty comfortable in my own skin and don't really need much in the way of recognition from others to get through my day, I still remember feeling much better when there were friends around to share the moment with me.

I guess you could say it is a stroke of luck.  I do know that the more I practice and work at this game, the better my luck gets.

People were created as social creatures.  Most of us like to have folks around to celebrate our milestones, and to comfort us when we are down.  I believe that is where the phrase "Human nature" comes from.

One of my holes in one came from an ugly little short shot that landed 30 yards short and to the left of the green.  The ball landed on the cart path, bounced off the curb, rolled onto the green and fell into the hole.  No, it was not a pretty shot.  No, that kind of shot won't get me onto the tour.  Yes, it was a hole in one.  Yes, I will take it.

Golf is a game about where the ball stops rolling.
Dick

Jimbo,

Have you videoed your swing? It's likely that you're not maintaining your spine angle and possibly lunging at the ball a bit. Try Dave's drill from "The Bump Part 2" video a few weeks ago. Tee the ball up really high then take a 7 or 8 iron and try to swing to hit the ball as high as you can. Every few balls tee it a bit lower until you're on the ground.

I tried that, ONCE!  The string got caught between my two middle bottom teeth and somehow wrapped around the club shaft. I'm being fitted tomorrow for two new teeth implants.

To all of the Surge Nation,                                                                                                     I'll be giving you all a full report on my awesome fitting experience later on Friday. Just hitting the sack now at our hotel in San Fransisco. We'll be home in Las Vegas around noon tomorrow -Friday and I will tell you everything then.

Good one, Rhig1. I was thinking the same thing, let gravity do the work.

Barry

Carroll, I fear that you and your machine are both a bit slow on the uptake. Surge will occasionally do daily videos from a range if he's at one, but for the most part he does these on the back porch and many of us like it this way. We feel like he's inviting us into his home and that's not something you get from most of the hacks talking golf on line. As for the pauses in the video, it's from a bottle-neck between the YouTube servers and your computer, most likely either with your ISP or your home setup. None of that is stuff that Surge's tech people can deal with. I know that every so often, when Cox is "improving service" here in Vegas, I suffer a day or two of slow videos, or if I haven't run my regular cleanup scripts on my machine and it's bogged down with crap, same thing. If you have trouble giving credibility to a bit of advice just because the PGA Master Professional instructor who has taken time from his day to give it to you for free didn't do it standing on grass, I'd say it's not a problem with Surge's delivery. I'll take Surge's substance over slick style every day of the week (except the days he lets Doc Griffin or one of the other Swing Surgeon instructors give us alternate perspectives).

I am anxious to here and compare your experience to my own.

I for one would definitely appreciate them. Please, keep all of us posted on the progress of this endeavor. There is too much knowledge being lost. I hope there is some way to restore it to the appropriate blogs.

Steve

Sorry pal.  I hate it when work gets in the way of golf.  I was going to play a round yesterday.  Just as I got my bag on my cart, the phone rang.  I had to put my street shoes back on and go do an inspection.  Did not hurt too bad, since the round was free.

I made up for that today.  I will do an after action report about today in a couple of minutes.

Sounds like those folks you work for can't make up their minds.  Was it just a little while ago they were cutting your hours in half?

Dick

Kevin--reminds me of a joke I heard.  A pastor called in sick one Sunday morning and asked the assistant pastor to conduct the service for him.  It was such a nice day that he wanted to play a round of golf in the morning.  On the third hole, he hits a hole in one, and St. Peter questions God, asking "Why did you let that happen when he cuts service?"  God answers, "He has his punishment.  Who is he going to tell?"

What on earth are you going on about Dick..Firstly, for your information, ive read the manual 5 times, watched the vids probably the same and practised on the range for 6 months and as I said, Im having trouble with this one part as it looks different to Dons. Next, Ive not put any negative comments about anyone barr the other Dik on here who bothered to write a post sayin didnt we see that yesterday. As for your final rant about reflecting, I do think you should get off your high horse and worry about your own game, post, comments etc rather than talking complete rubbish about something you clearly have not got a clue about so do me a favour and next time you want to think out loud do it at the bottom of a black hole you bell.

Just thinking out loud back
Ben 

Moe's swing was a 3/4 limited turn swing like the SSGS with the exception that it was angular and not vertical. He did have a FUS that was vertical like the SSGS and this is  key to hitting accurate shots. The rotational swing normally goes around to the left and is why the players who use it are streaky.

Howie,

A couple points: First and foremost looking at what "most pros" do will not do well for you if you're trying to learn the Surge Swing. Most pros have a standard rotational swing. Look at DJ Trahan's swing and you'll see what is being discussed here. Or use the search box for Hitting Your Driver to see Surge showing some elements of the swing and how to control ball flight.

Second note, there is a Surgism that says "The ball doesn't know what club you're holding." The basic move of the swing is exactly the same for any club. The only difference is where and how you are set up to the ball which is based on how different length clubs sit naturally. (Search for "Where Does That Ball Go" for advice about that.)

Third, if you think the angle of approach to the ball is steep because the swing is vertical, you don't understand the swing. Rotational swingers trying to pound down on the ball are much steeper than Surge Swingers sweeping the ball off the grass.

Also, check the length of your driver. Most off-the-rack drivers sold these days are too long to swing with a vertical swing, as are many iron sets.

I don't know if this will help, but it works for me. If you have a mirror on the wall, or a mirrored closet door you can use it to help find the mitt at the parallel position.

Stand with it perpendicular to the aim line and far enough away to not hit it and practice starting with the forward arm rolling away from the target. Make sure you back arm doesn't roll as this is what keeps the right elbow in position to keep the butt end out of the SBG. When parallel to the ground stop and see if the shaft is parallel to its reflection.

When I first tried this the mitt position was way outside and when the shaft was parallel to the ground the mirror showed to pointing outside instead of parallel to the aim line. After correcting that I started to hit fiberglass seeking missiles.

Good luck.

That is one of the reasons I and so many others choose early retirement rather that double work loads. That is the standard in today's industry, Do more with less. Everybody has to cut costs and save money, so the big shots get THEIR bonuses for cutting costs. Those who have all the money, make all the rules, and will always have control over the worker bees.