Controlling Your Rotation

Jack
You nailed it. When I first started Surge's method I got so tangled up in the mechanics that it made my hair hurt. Fortunately, that's a very small pain these days...lol. Once I ingrained the concept and forgot all the dots it started to come together. Is it pretty? No, but it sure works a lot better than my old swing. ;0)

Lynn42

Greg, Take a look at these two lessons and see if they help.
http://www.swingsurgeon.com/Ho...

http://www.swingsurgeon.com/Ho...

Charlie, did they mention guys that switch from one to the other at different times - that time period being as small as a few seconds or as long as a day
I seem to do both
Sometimes they run concurrently & I'm only aware of it later
Is there a downside to being a "switch hitter" & can it inhibit learning

Hi Charlie,

I find this to be very interesting. I have never heard the terms; field dependent or field independent before and would like to know more. Would you post some links to your previous discussions and websites that you feel might pertain to golf?

Thanks
Bob

CharlieY,

Things are definitely interesting. I tend to make quick decisions. I take a look and either go or not. I rarely debate whether I should. Most of the time, my choices are good, but not necessarily great. I tend to get away with a lot. I guess you could say I am reactionary rather than deliberative. It is sort of like this discussion - I did not really consider where it might lead. It interested me, so I am going with it. If it starts to go where I do not want to go, then I will change to another line of thought. I tend to drive analysts more crazy than I am LOL.

Thank you. I'll work on it.

JackOz--when you say "switch from one to the other," I assume you are talking about switching from external imagery (seeing yourself from the outside) versus seeing yourself from the inside. Both work, but the latter is much more helpful in ingraining a movement. External imagery is better than no imagery (just the dots). The research says that you have to develop what are called motor maps, which is like what some call muscle memory--the scripts that are stored in the brain that send signals to the muscles that actuate them in the proper sequences and with the proper amplitudes. Gifted athletes have superior motor maps. Moreover, the motor maps in the more gifted athletes reside in a different part of the brain, something we may have less control of. However, I believe that there are ways that less gifted athletes can try to foce this action, but I'm not ready to write about it yet. I do believe, though, that if you do the things that sports psychologists write about, they may have an effect that is positive

The research did not say anything about motor maps specific to switch hitters, but my first guess is that you have been able to develop these motor maps from both sides, which would be an obvious interpretation. I did not see anything in the sports research on whether or not they can come in conflict, so it seems that all is ok on that aspect. However, I have seen research that says that ambidextrous people (I'm one of them) can be more accident prone, The details were very logical. People who are "one handed" know their right from their left clearly, but ambicextrous people can get confused in a panic, such as reaching for the panic button to stop heavy machinery. It seems that in a panic, even if an ambidextrous person knows that the panic button is on the right, the left h and goes out to the left, Scares me.

Loved it Dick, you would make an outstanding caddy/Head of Security.
On the Woods side. It will be interesting to see how my 3W 5W go on my first trip to the range. I was, prior to the PPGS/SSGS enlightenment, smoking both and my 'Free' 24* Rescue club. Now I also know the problems previously perhaps caused by too long a shaft on my Driver, might make a difference.
Will concentrate on just ingraining the new swing, whatever happens.
Perhaps the 'hit at' syndrome on the big dog might be the problem. Try a couple with your "Happy Birthday" with your eyes closed.
Thanks for your support, humour and friendship. Now go get 'em Dick
FUS to a T finish.
PS A cousin of my wife's delivered a laser pointer to me yesterday. It is meant to fit on a putter hosel. I wanted one like a pen hahaha.This one has taken a bit of head scratching and innovation to come up with a solution. In the end I clagged [good word] a ball of Blu-Tac on the club butt end. The laser stuck to it without any problem at all. Don't know if you get Blu-Tac, would imagine you do. If not, it is like 'silly putty' and used for sticking things on walls etc. It is removable and can be re-used again and again. Also good for cleaning any dust and things off your computer keyboard. ; - ) Good Luck with your job after Church. Keep it vertical long and FUS in Oklahoma.

Up at 2-30 am and watched it live on line. So thanks for the offer. Can't get YouTube. A nice thought all the same

Amos--that would be confusing to me (simple minded). However, the most interesting green I ever saw (on TV) was a green in which there was a large boulderhalf way between the pin and the edge of the green. If you approached the pin in line with the boulder, it looks like you had to putt around it.

Dick

I checked it out and the tees come with a money back guarantee of at least 30 extra yards. FYI...They are much less expensive than the magic shaft.

Lynn42

Great advice, Surge. It can be so hard to just let the swing happen, and when something goes wrong, the impetus to do something to correct it, rather than to NOT do something because doing something is probably what made it go wrong, is very strong.

On a side note for the amusement of my northeast friends here, I wish I'd remembered to bring my camera today so you could have seen me hitting balls on the driving range in the blowing snow. ;-) The weather man in Vegas has a very strange sense of humor.

Jack

Maybe what few "little grey cells" I have left can head off to the Bahamas with yours. I'm learning that when things go south for me I tend to overthink and then the ugly dots take over.
Or maybe I overthink and then things go south. Now I'm confusing myself and it's all your fault. Jack, seeeee, you made me start thinking. You're a bad influence. Are you proud of yourself?

Lynn42

I liked that one too Henrick. Surge is just too cool. That should be a T shirt:
On one side "GOLF" and on the other, "IMPACT HAPPENS".

Charlie Y:

Not dure about this "field dependent" thing - I do know that I prefer tree lined courses with narrow fairways. I can usually hit the fiarway, while my longer hitting opponent is frequently in the trees!

I do not care for the "wide open" courses where 270 yards anywhere beats the Hell out of 190 - 210 yards in the fairway.

Also - vision and optics can come into play. Case in point is Spanaway near Tacoma WA.
It has several holes and fairways cut from a forest of giant Redwoods. Their fairways are about as wide as anyone else's but standing on the tee looking down that corridor of 200+ foot tall trees makes the fairway look about 2 yards wide! It is amazing how many people wind up about 3 trees deep from the fairway and needing at least 2 chips or putts to get back in play. (Ever tried playing a 2 tree carom to get back to the fairway in one effort?)

Keep hitting them STRAIGHT and LONG

Amos

Kevin, people who behave as you describe, more reactionary than deliberative, tend to be more creative and more able to handle crises, primarily because they found themselves in more crisis situations due to lack of planning or willingness to take a risk.

Surge
Thank you for addressing some of my comments and questions over the past two days!
with that, The Masters and my birthday, It has been a great weekend!
Its good to know I'm on the right track with some of my thoughts, looks like Im actually learning something from you fellas! lol
And for anyone who is interested or have missed some of the action, I have been putting highlights of The Masters up on my youtube channel. they are located in the playlists section, enjoy!

Robert et al,

I have a question on the mitt - is the catcher left-handed or right-handed? I think mine is a righty whose positioning the mitt for an inside fastball :-P

When I was out doing my practice in the yard earlier, I noticed that I was getting way inside of the mitt on the takeaway. As soon as I corrected that, I went up the tree and FUS to the T-finish almost exactly the way it is supposed to be. Plus, I got a 10-15% gain in distance. I'm going to the range tomorrow to see if it carries over to hitting real golf balls instead of the Almost golf balls I use in the yard..

Kevin

Steve, congrats on the score mate - brilliant
Removed the tee & became Seve instead of Steve?
You keep knocking your swing but don't realise that in so doing your smacking me round the ears
Yours looks like Ernie Els compared to mine

Ron could have taught Archimedes a thing or two about levers - I related to his swing as levers are about the only thing I do well

I feel your pain about the missed putts - late last year I had an equal personal best of 71 on our par 72 course - I lamented those missed opportunities too

I also have r7 irons - maybe they allow for "getting it done ugly"

I've been thinking about the debate over "one piece swings" yesterday - yeh I was watching but didn't participate due to ignorance & nothing to add
You may have sparked a little ember in my brain
If my swing falls apart, I'm blaming you, not my ineptitude
Congrats mate or as my mate would say "Your Back"

Lynn42--thanks for the note and good wishes. Anxions to hear how swinging easy worked for you. Would like to compare notes. Here's the way I figure out my path for the future. Swing easy to try to repeat what I did that one day I first tried it to get the other parts of the swing to work correctly; then start increasing the overall tempo, but with more correct elements. I can't do the Shark method of swing as hard as you want and then work on accuracy. That just isn't in my makeup.

Hi Phil.
Can you help me with this question and problem I have on the takeaway/backswing.
I always seem to close the clubface and take the clubhead back on the outside which causes all sorts of problems.
With the PPGS Swing should I really focus on opening the clubface up and try to take it slightly inside the line on the backswing and can I open the clubface too much as I think I am closing it because I am frightened to hit a shank or pust it out to the right and this fear is making me close up the clubface and this is causing the outside to in path...

Any help on this would be very much appreciated and what should I focus on to stop this ever present fault which is driving me crazy
Enjoy the Masters everyone and lets hope for a Tiger Charge although I of course hope young Rory will hang on in there..

Greg, Give these two lessons a look and see if they are of any help.
http://www.swingsurgeon.com/Ho...

http://www.swingsurgeon.com/Ho...

Dick

Jack has a cattle prod for that.

Lynn42

Great golf Steve. You're shootin par so I can't feel too bad for you. Way to go. Hope I can get out there soon too.

That fits me to a tee ;-)

Hi there Harry,
I think Roberts answer below will be of more help as I feel I have the opposite problem, having the tendency of opening the clubface too much, and not getting it square back at impact.
Keeping Palms Perpendicular seems to be the key for me, as long as you have the correct neutral grip you cant get too open or too closed.
have a look at this it may be helpful
http://www.swingsurgeon.com/Ho...
good luck

Being former military and retired Federal employee, I just love acronyms. Try IH-GYMOOTW. It is easier on the eyes LOL.

Kevin

No small way T
Your instant referencing & direction costs you time & you give it purely to aid others
Humility won't hide your good deeds

Dick Lee, you know you're supposed to see yourself clothed so that you don't get sick.

Kim

Please come back as often as you can. We want to know how the new job is going.

With all that stuff to do on a Sunday, sounds like you should take up golf just to get out of the house.

Dick

Kim, you're so right about Terry. He's been a staunch Surgite for a long time and he is a computer wiz among his many talents. We have a bunch of great guys that help out every day. Too many to name. That's just the kind of folks Surge attracts. T and Robert F are Jonny on the spot among others. It's a privelage to rub shoulders even if it is only on line.
BTW, did 7 massages today. Ouch! Full day tommorow too. I know, too much too soon. I'm iceing etc. I'm using mostly elbows and forarms where possible. Seemed to do okay so far. We'll see.

CharlieY,

What does one do who is caught in the middle - like sometimes I'm dependent (I have to see a line) and other times independent (all I see is the hole or target). It is like I can't make up my mind. Oh, maybe I can't :-(

Kevin

Robert--I found one paper on field dependence/field independence as it relates to sports, but the number of participants was rather small. Also, it did not talk specifically on how to learn a sport or how to perform a sport. It did, however, say that field independent people are more attracted to sports like golf where it is you against a structure that does not vary much over time, while field dependent people are more attracted to sports where you compete against others in dynamically changing situations. I was caught by surprise by this result--I would have thought it was the other way, but it makes sense when I think about it. Field independent people like to analyze situations, and it would be hard to do that in fast moving, dynamically changing sports, but you could do that in a sport where the structure does not change much. Here's the URL in case you want to read the paper.

http://srufaculty.sru.edu/wenh...

I haven't found any other papers with sports as a focus yet.

Lynn, my problem is I'm not smart enough to spot the clothing hanging out the side of the suitcase
I have to do a periodical check by walking round it
I do have one plus going for me though -
My brain is so small & slow that it can only think of one thing at a time
Unfortunately my little grey cells go off to the Bahamas without taking me

Kim,

You are on the money with those nice words. T and Robert F are both site librarians for Surge's blog and most helpful. But, we try not to tell them. It's an ego thing and we're trying to keep them humble. ;0)

Lynn42

CharlieY,

That doesn't apply to me. I am a klutz, but I am a righty only. I get confused easily as well; like am I supposed to be hitting to the 6th hole or is it the 12th hole?

Kevin

Hey Robert, thanks for that,
I missed the first half of todays round, so I will certainly spend some time on it tonight

Jack

We are old men. If we put the printing small enough to get all that on there, we won't be able to read it.

Dick

Steve

Golf is a greedy game. I've never shot par, 3 over one day when I made every putt in sight and I was just coasting along in the zone and totally clueless...lol. I shot one under on the front 9 on my par 58 course once and then proceeded to shot 7 over on the back 9.

Just imagine the round if you had made those putts. We all look back at rounds like yours and say..what if. I guess that's what makes it the great game it is.

I know I will still chase that one round of par golf and that first ace. It's what keeps us coming back

Lynn42

Charlie, thanks for your posts & reply - very enlightening
If I've understood you properly, you assumed correctly - I use external & internal imagery but they seem to have different functions for me

The reason I asked if this can inhibit learning is because I can be a slow learner at times
The things I learn slowly are the ones I have the best insight into - odd?

The less adept I am at something, the more likely I am to switch back & forth between the two
Most of the time I'm unaware that's what I'm doing - It's only upon reflection that it dawns on me that's what's going on

Should one just go with the flow of what works naturally or try to major on one method?
Thanks again for your unique input
Jack

Harry, relax your right elbow a bit so that the inside of the elbow points a bit skyward (around 11 o'clock on an imaginary clock in front of you) and don't try to keep the right arm straight on the takeaway but let it fold naturally until you get the club onto the toe-line. From there both arms lift straight up.

The outside-to-in path can also be caused by not bumping properly, either by not shifting the weight properly or by spinning the hips rather than shifting them laterally forward to start the transition.

Great thought: IMPACT HAPPENS.

I made the cut. I am on the "A" team.

Steve: Congratulations on the AWESOME round!!! And thank you for posting the great videos for us - it's fun to see 'em. It sounds like your clubs are working well for you! Keep us updated on your rounds - not many of us ever see a par round these days. lol Hit 'em straight. R2

Thanks for the reply, Charlie. I must be field dependent because it does tend to keep me focused if I have something that forces me to keep it down the straight and narrow. Take away the trees and the odds are I'll lose that focus nd in so doing lose distance and accuracy.This is not to say I don't visit those trees once in a while, but I tend to be much more accurate when they're there. ;0)

Lynn42