Controlling Your Rotation

Charlie Y:

We ran out of "reply" tabs on the other thread, so I am posting my answer to you here.

By nature, I am a "better safe than sorry" guy.

However, depending on the situtation, I can also be a "fortune favors the brave" -- specially if shot though a narrow opening or a high shot to clear a tree is called for.

The ones where I definitely "pull in my horns" are the long carries over water when I probably can not reach or hold the green anyway. Example: my home course has two holes with a 10 fto wide canal strategically placed such that I have about 4 clubs in my bag that can put me in the water -- and two, that if well to very well hit, will fly the water and just maybe put me on the green, but in the Summer time, those greens are ultra hard and will not hold a FW or hybrid.. Unless I happen to hit a super drive, it is much smarter to play them as the "world's shortest par 5's". I average about 4.5 on those holes

Keep hitting them STRAIGHT and LONG

Amos

Dick,

I'm game! I'd rather golf than sleep anyway. ;-)

Kevin

One other difference is that you & T use your strengths to help your golfing fraternity brothers
"Other fellow" is only self serving his own weaknesses

Hello all my Surgite Friends,

Just wanted to say good morning to everyone before I hit the rack. The house is asleep and the quiet has got me nodding off. I pretty much have gotten caught up on the blogs for the week except for this one here, which I'll think I'll save for after the Masters. I hate being late to the party but that blog from early in the week and Doc choking chickens was a hoot or should that be a cluck & cackle?
Have a good day everyone,
Boog

Dick - I'm getting an education on this blog
So a San Diego Padre's switch hitter has a unique batting style
I get it now - San Diego seems to adversely affect people
Told you I wasn't too bright

Hi, Bob. I will find some links to good tutorials on the general theory of field dependent-field independent differences and how they play out in life. I'm not sure if there are any research articles related to golf, but I might find some related to sports in general. FD-FI is a very popular research tool because the "test" are easy to administer and the concept is so simple. By the way, in one of the conversations with Steve, I wrote that field independent people are the better problem solvers, so that see "outside the box" far more easily. So, if you have a situation where you cannot hit an ordinary shot, the FI person can see it as a puzzle, figure out a swing to solve the puzzle, and then swing the puzzle. It turns out that FI people tend to be more ituitive, which helps them solve puzzles. They may be also more prone to taking risks, not because they are risky in behavior, but because they see the puzzle more clearly. The field dependent person could be overwhelmed by the puzzle and not be able to resolve it, and thus take the safe way out. Of course, these things are only in trends and not locked-in behavior. A FD person might take a risk, and a FI person might act cautiously on singular events, but over many events, a FD person would probably take the conservative route and the FI person the riskier route.

By the way, there was a research project that showed that jet pilots pulling out of a steep dive did better if they were FD because FD people drew energy from the ground and could sense where it was better than FI pilots. I saw a research project conducted where FI people were more able to operate instruments while looking at the instrument's reflection in a mirror, where you have to move your hand in the opposite drection to what you see in the mirror. FD people are more tied to the mirror image and had difficulty moving opposite to what they saw. Don't know if this helps, but it is a rather elementary primmer on the subject.

Yes, Jack, I think there's a lot of merging going on around the farm. I also suspect that one or two more personalities have emerged and are taking up the boys' cause.
Mac

Kim, Thank you for the kind words. I'm happy to be able to help in some small way.

Steve

If I put this comment with the one about protecting ourselves from the elements, I come up with a fantastic idea. Check this out. I am going to get the Aussie brush hat with the snapable side brim. We take that hat and install a miner's light on the front. This might be something you would still have from your mining days. Then, you would be covered if the sun was out, or had set.

This thing could be my ticket to the big time boys. If anyone is interested, just let me know so I can get an estimate as to how many I should start building.

Standing by with my order form in my hand,
Dick

Steve

I won't pack yet, but does that mean I get the job if you do? Just like to know where we stand, so I can start spending the money. I don't know if I will know which club to hand you, or how to help you read the greens. But, I can promise you that you won't get bored. I could also be head of security. If you want a fan or other player roughed up a bit, just point them out. Remember no golf bag is complete without some duct tape and a Glock.

Sounds like you have the makings for a great golf season. I think you will get the things that are a little rough right now worked out. You seem to have the ability to think things through.

The woods are still the weakest part of my game too. I can just slaughter the ball with my driver and 3w on the range. I am having a hard time being consistent on the course. My irons have never been better. Adding the little Happy Birthday tempo to my swing has me killing the stuff from 175 in with my irons, 7w, and 21* hybrid. I am having a bit of a slice issue on the course with driver and 3w. I won't give up on it. I know there is just something I am missing with those two sticks. I just have to keep reading, watching videos, adapting to this swing. It will come.

This is the part of the game that keeps us coming back for more. Some times I think in my case it goes back to the definition of insanity. You know, doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

The overshot and the GPS story cracked me up.

I am hitting the rack. I have to get up early for church and then I am working at the course from 11AM till dark. I guess I had better go put some hours in there to cover all the balls I have hit at the range and the 11 rounds I have played in the last two weeks.

Have a great day tomorrow, and I will catch up with you soon.

Good night Surge Nation. Thanks for your prayers, support, and friendship.
Dick

Amos--I, too, have tried to hit between trees, over trees, and under high branches, only to fail. I'm sure I'm "better safe than sorry," so why does this happen? Is psychology wrong? No, not in my case. I figured out that I greatly miss-judged how tight my dispersion is with irons and underestimated how high my ball goes with particular irons. So, I may thought it was safe, but it wasn't. This affects me in my puttig--on "normal length putts, I am more apt to be short, even if I understand the "never up, never in" rule about sinking putts. On lag putts, I am still more likely to be too short, but sometimes I'm too long because of over compensation, not wanting to fall too short. Better safe than sorry spikers in volleyball tend to not develop explosive body action, so I would imagine that this might transfer to golfers.

You get any worse and we may have to send you to the Champions Tour.

Kevin--I can relate. When I played on a course for the first time, the regulars pointed me to the flag. Unfortunately, there were two greens around 20 yards apart. I couldn't see the flag on the correct green--I could only see the one on the wrong green, and I hit toward it.

Phil, re your round on the goat track yesterday
There's a good side to it - I loved playing golf with a set of new long athletic arms
How did it feel playing with my geriatric ones?
Happy birthday & hope you enjoyed my present

Kevin, it sounds like maybe there's 2 problems. First, I would suggest you try not consciously rotating your arms at all, but just letting them rotate naturally. Without even holding a club, just swing your arms back to the toeline. If your palms have remained perpendicular to the ground, then your forearms have rotated properly without any effort on your part.

Second, if your hips are spinning sharply left during the downswing, that is symptomatic of an improper hip bump. At the top of your backswing, your knees should be pointing slightly right because your left knee has come a little forward as you've sunk back onto your right leg. The hip bump should be in the same direction as the knees are pointing, i.e. slightly to the right. It should be a straight, lateral move of 1-2 inches. The hips will eventually turn to the left, but that comes later in the downswing, with most of it coming after impact.

Charlie

I had one of those out of body experiences and watched myself swing once. I almost got sick to my stomach and was going to call the Surge Nation golf police. It was a crime.

Dick

Steve

I can always say I knew you when. Great game pal. Don't be so hard on yourself. That just means you have some room for improvement. Just think about what you will shoot when you have a game like you shot today and the other ones drop too.

We will be seeing you on the champions tour. Can I caddie for you? I will keep the other guys laughing so hard they won't be able to see what you are doing. I will do everything but wash your balls. Maybe Doc will loan you his team of chockers.

Cool idea with the tees. I knew you were talented. If I use your tees, will I gain yards on my drives?

The folks in the Surge Nation are sure a creative bunch.
Dick

I'm a little disappointed Dick
I expected - "She would have only got 10 years for murder"

Hi, Amos--I used to end up in the right tree line due to a fade. I began to tell others that if you end up in the trees, you may have dog genes, if you end up in bunkers, you may have cat genes, and if you end up in water, you may have fish genes.

What you describe with you and your opponents sounds like the classic difference between those who llive their lives by "better safe than sorry" and "fortune favors the brave." In much of my life, I play it save. On the other hand, one of my golf friends is "fortune favors the brave," being a day trader on the stock market. He would rather for for distance to be able to make birdies, even if it means that his drives might go astray and require him to recover.
Are you a "better safe than sorry" guy, or do you just play that way through experience?

Surge,

Thanks for reinforcing what I am working on. I'm one of those that always tried to force the club head to be square at impact with all the errors that you describe. My problem, when I do the swing incorrectly, actually is over-rotation in the back-swing instead of the FUS. I did that several times today, hitting pull-hooks - rolling my left arm over too much in the back-swing. I get the toe pointed straight up when the club head gets to the mitt, but have a tendency to continue rotate as I go up the tree. That causes me to come back to the ball with the club face closed and my hips spinning sharply left. Great video.

Kevin

Jack

As Major Frank Burns said on the TV show "MASH 4077, "It is nice to be nice to the nice."

39 years with the same wife, that is great pal.

I have been married for almost 30 years. Not to the same woman. My "Married Life" is like a 401K. When I change wives, I just roll the time over into the new "account."

Dick

Rob: A while back the Surge talked about it in a blog video and said his main swing thought is to get to a proper "t" finish. He does not focus on the ball, but simply "lets the ball get in the way of the clubhead as it moves thru the FUS to the "t" finish". Hope this helps a little. R2

The golf course has a way of keeping us all humble, Lynn. Maybe why we only hear of that other fellow being at the driving range.

CharlieY,
I don't have that excuse. I know which hole is which. On this course, there is only 5 yards of rough and no trees between the fairways. The 6th and the 12th run in the same direction with doglegs to the left. If you drive through the fairway on #6, the only thing in front of you is #12 green. Fortunately or maybe unfortunately, I don't play this course very often. If I did, I might remember which hole I am playing.

I played a course over in Germany years ago where 2 fairways semi-merged and shared a double-green. Now, that was confusing. One hole was a dogleg right and the other left. They would post a notice in the club house each day as to which flag went with which hole. Sometimes, they even put both holes on the same side of the green. It made for some very interesting golf shots.

Kevin

Shengri Kuai Le! Phil NZ or Happy Birthday
Here lucky can catch up on Highlights at least x 3 at various times on several channels.
Keep it vertical, long and straight in Aodaliya Phil Xinxilan.

Actually I didn't ask my doctor if I could go back to work. He had left it as "when you think you're ready". If I find it's too much I will just have to let management know at work. Have a good Sunday:)

Steve, I'm so dumb that during the floods I put the sand on the outside of the bags & wondered why they didn't work

Lynn

Just make sure dad does not come up out of the water and grab your ball(s).

Dick

STEVE:

Tire Irons work well for that purose also! Hank Jr "Attitude Adjustment" -- "Works every time" LOL

Amos

Lynn42--it's good that you know that you need things like trees to keep you focused. Just knowing that is the start to doing positive things to keep focused. We still don't know if you prefer it (normal behavior) or need it (learned behavior).

If you live in an area with chuck holes in the winter, one of the examples given for field dependent people is that we have difficulty avoiding the holes. For some reason, the energy of the chuck holes grab our attention,, and we head straight for it. FD tennis players have trouble because theyoften hit the ball to the opponent instead of away from him/her because they are captured by the energy of the opponent, particularly in doubles. Not so in singles because there is so much open space around the opponent, but in doubles, you see two people, and the first decision is which direction to hit.

Kevin, perhaps your problem is having the toe all the way to 90* from the ground in the mitt. Remember that when you get to the mitt, the club face should match your body angle. It's not until you get to the toe line that it's fully vertical for the lift.

Robert

I have this knot in my shoulder. Can you just rub your computer. I will put mine on my shoulder. Let me know when you hit the post button, and that should work. Kind of like a long distance fitting.

Glad to hear you are back in the saddle.
Dick

Lynn42--what you wrote about "Once I ingrained the concept and forgot all the dots . . ." is perfectly consistent with some of the fMRI data on elite athletes and musicians on how they develop expertise. The article says that a person cannot start with the concept and has to start with the mechanics (in my case, the dots). Glad to see that the process worked for you as the authors describe. They go further and differentiate between to different ways of getting the concept. One way is through visual imagery, where you see yourself from outside your body, like looking at a video of yourself. The other way is through motor imagery, where you see yourself from inside yourself, where the latter is said to be far superior in the ingraining of athletic movements. I haven't been able to figure out this motor imagery/internal imagery process yet.

Hey Steve,

WTG! Sorry you had such a bad round...lol. Hmmm, 7 iron, 190 yards. No problem, I can do that....in 3 strokes.

Can I borrow that golf swing that you don't have since you're not using it? ;0)

Sounds like one of my rounds, when I'm sound asleep and dreaming.

Lynn42

Kevin--about two flags on one green--One of my local courses had a green that was ruined by the the grass getting cut too short. They debated whether to make the nearest green (about 20 yards) a double green or simply make a temporary green on the fairway in front of the bad green. They chose to do the latter and made a temporary green. It was horrible putting on it, so everyone just played it as a two-putt green. The staff thought we would get into fights if they made a double green. We might have.

Mac
I dropped in on your farm the other day
You weren't home but I heard Wang & Jim singing
A bit abrasive on the ears but they were in perfect unison for a while
So much so that you'd swear it was one voice

Yes they did have a faint choir in the background - way off key though

Kim

I don't call T the coach for no reason. He and Robert are always there with a pointer.

Dick

JackOz--I have answers for some of your comments, not on others. As for "only on reflection," the research data shows that reflection is a very important component on learning, except for gifted learners who can learn just by doing.

If switching between external imagery and internal motor imagery is what you continue, the research says that you should rest assured that it is better than not using imagery at all. As for motor imagery, though, what makes it so powerful is that people who are good at it say that they feel as though their hand passes through the implement and actually makes contact with the ball. It explains the golf tips where you swing your hand at the ball before you putt to get the feel; it explains the golf tip of imagining that you are pounding a spike into a wall with your open hand (ouch!). It explains why tennis pros are seen swinging their hand at an imaginary ball, forehand and backhand. When the elite athletes and musicians were interviewed, they said that they felt as though their hands and fingers became part of the equipment/musical instrument. No wonder blind pianists can play the piano and accordionists can hit the buttons on the left side without being able to see them.

I don't know the answer to your questions about why you learn more slowly when you have best insight.

I'm conjecturing now--if we aren't part of the gifted group that develops these motor maps naturally, what we can do is try to get as close as we can.

Kevin--most people demostrate behaviors on both sides, but they have a tendency to be one or the other. However, tendencies do add up, and in an activity where you do things over and over, they can affect the probabiities. As to being in the middle--that's possible also, like people who are ambidextrous or people who are not dominant in one eye be equal in both eyes. Being in the middle is ok as long as the person is able to chose the proper side for each activity. It becomes a problem when you should chose field indepence but chose field dependence instead, or visa versa. This is a common area of discussion in the psychology area that goes under the description of "bipolar scales." This is not bipolar as in being bipolar (highs and lows). This is being in the middle of two equal and opposite preferences, like "better safe than sorry" and "fortune favors the brave." Sometimes one is better than the other, depending on the situation and your risk/reward tolerance.

Robert F

I just went out and tried relaxing my right elbow and it feels right. One more thing to work on tomorrow. Thank you.

Lynn42

has the surge ever talked about what his swing thought is at adress? thank you

My work is done

After Don’s video yesterday & Doc’s continuing educational vids I’ve decided to get off my coight & do something

I’ve created a paradigm shift in clubfitting by gathering the 2 greatest minds on the subject

Let me introduce them – Wang Kerr & Jim Bob
“Shut up Wang, Shut up Jim” – BZZZZZT, Aaaaaaaargh

Wang has all the contacts & theories – Jim has all the practical expertise
Have a listen to them – they never shut up, yet they say nothing
“If we synchronise the hydrocoptic marzel vanes with the ambifacient lunar wanes, the nofer trunnions will boost the non geocentric preambulators”
BZZZZZZZT, Aaaaaaargh
Don’t worry about the background noise; it’s just my cattle prod
It’s the only thing that shuts them up

Wang's bighead & Jim's tiny head on his strange gangly body makes life fun
I zap Jim when he’s close to Wang
Jim's long gangly arms & legs flail about whacking the tripe out of Wang’s giant head
Two for one – Sweet
Check this out – BZZZZZZT, Aaaaargh , Thump, Aaaaaah
Doesn’t matter how often I see that, it still makes me laugh

I poached them from a Guinea Pig farm down the track from me
It’s run by a multi talented, sophisticated lady named Janet, who I call Mac
You’ll easily identify Mac’s farm by the sign “GUINEA PIG FARM” posted on top of a statue labelled “LIMITATIONS”

I’m not too sure about Jim’s identity
Mac says his name is Jim Bob but she also told me he is Jay el Bayt so he could be Spanish
Also, when I was watching Jim & Wang trying to round up the G-Pigs, their shady grey figures would appear to merge as if they were one – very strange indeed
Mac tells me the merging is common & very disturbing when they are left alone for a while – she mumbled something about donuts & hoped I had a strong stomach

I’ve locked Jim & Wang up in the little shed for the night where we’re setting up shop
From up at the house I can hear them prattling so I’ll have to go down there with the prod before I hit the sack

This paradigm shift will send the clubfitting industry into panic
Big news to come
Keep an eye out for our franchise - Jack, Jim, Wang Kerrs

Way to go on your round.

Soon you'll be on back porch with Surge!

Phillip

Robert,

I'm really impressed with Steve. First he gets an endorsement deal with Golfsmith, then goes out and shoots a par round of golf and still is humble enough to come on here and talk to all us little people, ;0)

Lynn42

Charlie Y:

Galloway in Memphis, TN, used to use 2 holes on every green (except on tournament days). The procedure was to move the flag to the opposite hole when all were on the green. It was supposed to "even out" the wear and tear" on the greens - specially on weekends when the course was full from dawn until dark.

Keep hitting them STRAIGHT and LONG,

Amos