PPGS Flared Feet Setup

Tue, 02/24/2015 - 12:00 -- Don Trahan

One of the easiest ways to spot a PPGS golfer is to look at the position of their feet in the setup. If they're set up correctly, you will see that each foot is flared out instead of pointing straight out in front of them.

Having flared feet allows you to have proper knee movement that's important for a vertical golf swing. As you should already know, everything about the Peak Performance Golf Swing is designed to keep your body from being in any pain or discomfort throughout the entirety of the swing.

Remember that your knees are your levelers and stabilizers. They don't work against eachother, they work together. Our lateral motion is much more stable compared to all other swings being taught today and it's because of our flared feet and knee position throughout the swing that allows us to accomplish a limited turn.

Check out the video for a visual demonstration of flared feet and stable knees.

Keep it vertical!

The Surge

Comments

jon.lucenius's picture

Submitted by jon.lucenius on

for bringing this up and explaining it so clearly. I had naturally flared feet for short while in my swing, and it was going quite well. Then some so called instructors came along, and I went back to trying the parallel thing for all the wrong reasons and my game suffered.

Since doing the PPGS I have ben using the flared feet again, about 35 & 45 back to front, with great results. When combined with PLHR, it really does reduce the swing down to basics and makes it repeatable.

Now to find the "Swing Surgeon of Course Management" : )

Keep it down the middle,
Jon

Dave Everitt's picture

Submitted by Dave Everitt on

Flared feet work great with this swing but I found alignment very inconsistent if I used the toeline to set up. There was always a tendency to align my heels to far to the right because the left foot was flared more than the right. The other problem was the difficulty of repeating the amount of flare for every swing.

All I do now is step into the ball with comfortably flared feet ( not worrying about exactly how much they are flared, although the left is always more flared) and align my inner ankles parallel left. Focusing on the inner ankles which are right over the inside arches does a lot of good things when it comes to feeling alignment, and staying balanced and centered during the swing. This method has proved to be better for me than checking toe alignment of flared feet, because it makes it easier to get the heels and knees lined up consistently parallel left.

Manaus's picture

Submitted by Manaus on

Does this tip solve a problem that doesn't exist?
I have never heard any teacher recommend parallel feet except when first stepping up to the ball with feet close together to align the club face before taking up a normal stance with feet slightly flared.

Dave Everitt's picture

Submitted by Dave Everitt on

I didn't mean to say that the feet should be parallel to each other but to the target line. If we were playing with feet flared exactly the same amount, it would be no problem using the toeline for alignment. With the amount of foot flare that I use with the left foot, using the toeline for alignment sets me up about 2 inches closed to the target line every time. This might help explain why so many people at the Surge golf schools have alignment issues.

A lot of the pros including Greg Norman, use the heel line for alignment because it is more precise. During the winter months I practice alignment using the lines of my hardwood floor. Using the inner ankle bones for lining up consistently gives me a correct heel line.

Before switching to this method I had no idea how bad my tendency was to misalign to the right with the footline. I think that it would be a worthwhile test for anyone missing a lot to the right, to check their heel line.

Surge addressed this alignment issue back in 2010. In his blog, he points out that we are turning around our ankles not our heels which makes me think that lining up the ankles is the way to go .

https://www.swingsurgeon.com/daily-video-tips/body-alignment-use-toe-line-or-heel-line

dgundling@verizon.net's picture

Submitted by dgundling@veriz... on

I have been attempting to use the PPGS for the past 4 years. In that time my index has gone from 23 to 34. I have lost about 80 yards on my driver. I generally am in the fairway on the drive and my iron shots are pretty straight. Can you offer ANY help?
Watching today's video I noted that you apparently want the hands in front of the ball at impact. I find that I make better more consistent contact when I watch the club head go through the ball. This puts my hands behind the ball at impact. Wrong? I really would like to be able to hit my PW 100 yards again. I have no club including the driver from which I can rely on a carry of more than 140yds.

Kevin McGarrahan's picture

Submitted by Kevin McGarrahan on

If you watch the club head go through the ball, you have to slow down to see it. Slowing down takes away a lot of distance. The solution is simple, but difficult for some (most?) to achieve. There are three positions in the PPG swing that are critical: (1) Master Setup Position (MSP); (2) Top of the Back Up-Swing (BUS); and (3) T-Finish.

As Surge says, "The setup determines the motion." If you get the setup correct, you CAN make a good PPG Swing.

If you make a "limited turn, 3/4 back swing," you will be in position to swing through the ball correctly. I have found that tension in the BUS prevents me getting to the correct position at the top of the BUS. If I tighten up in the BUS with the idea of powering the swing, I cannot get to the proper position: lower body slightly turned; knees level and wide; shoulders turned to 70*; hands above ear level and between neck and shoulder; club shaft vertical when viewed down-the-line.

Then comes the distance part - the FUS and getting to the T-Finish AFAP (As Fast As Possible) or as Surge says, "like a poptart." This action creates the club head speed that creates distance.

If you get each of the 3 positions correct and trust that you can do that, you will be free to make the swing without "seeing" the individual positions or check points in the swing. The trust part caused me problems for quite a while. When I trust that I can get to each position, distance is not a problem. My driver will carry 220-240 yards. When I don't trust the swing, my driver only carries 165-185.

My pre-swing routine is: Standing facing the target, get the proper grip with the face of the club vertical; assume the T-finish position and swing smoothly backward to the top of the BUS without tension; swing to the T-Finish AFAP. I do this 2 or 3 times to relieve any tension. I then hold the shaft vertically, lining it up with the ball and the target and pick a point slightly in front of the ball on that line. I then focus on the line between that point and the ball. I don't look at the target again. Maintaining my focus and not changing my grip, I move to the MSP. Possible problems for me during this are losing track of my aiming line and questioning the aiming line, causing me to look back at the target.

My swing sequence is: (A) setup in the MSP correctly without looking at the target again after picking my target line; (B) get to the top of the BUS; and (C) swing to the T-finish AFAP. I don't think about the ball at all. If, as part of the MSP, I get and maintain a firm grip (as defined by Surge), I am guaranteed that the club head will contact the ball "on the line, square and solid, accelerating."

If I do all these "simple" things, I am virtually guaranteed to hit the ball straight and almost as long as I did 40 years ago (I'm 65).

I hope this helps. Trust the PPGS and play great golf.

Kevin

Hal's picture

Submitted by Hal on

Kevin, You are good,\.I don't think that Don could have said it any better. I have been a student and a friend for over 15 years. I am at the point that I don't have to think of my swing unless I start to have some problems. Then I start going through the set up as you have described.
Hal

Kevin McGarrahan's picture

Submitted by Kevin McGarrahan on

Thanks, Hal. If I could consistently play as good as I talk, I'd be on the Champions Tour.

dgundling@verizon.net's picture

Submitted by dgundling@veriz... on

Took your suggestions to the driving range today. Unfortunately there was no effect.
I hit 60 balls concentrating on the 3 positions and the only thing I did during the swing was insure that the club was traveling along the target line. Not one ball carried over about 75 yards.

One other thing with PPGS, I don't believe fitness has anything to do with results. In four years of trying I have been unable to find a way to use the strength I have. It seems that there is no way to increase swing speed. Once you have achieved your top level, that's it. You can't get any more. I hope that statement is wrong but I've never found a way to do it. In the dailies Don says swing your arms faster. How does one do that?

Hal's picture

Submitted by Hal on

Mr Gundling. You need go up top and contact customer support and have Don call you and have a down to earth convertsation about the ppgs swing. I believe he will correct a lot of your problems over the phone. try it.
Hal

dgundling@verizon.net's picture

Submitted by dgundling@veriz... on

I'll try that. I have had very little or no success getting replies to questions from either Don or customer support. Only when I post to the comments part of the dailies do I receive any response.

Kevin McGarrahan's picture

Submitted by Kevin McGarrahan on

As I mentioned above, I take a few (normally 2-3) practice swings, starting from the T-Finish back to the top of the BUS and back to the T-Finish, making the forward swing AFAP. A good drill is the swish drill. Take a long club, gripping with the head toward your hands, and make the swing, listening to the swish sound. The object is two-fold: (1) get the swish to occur slightly ahead of the center of your stance; and (2) make the swish as loud as you can. The first one relates to timing and the second to tempo. By concentrating on the swish without a ball present, but maintaining all other aspects of the PPGS, you can learn to increase your swing speed. I have an old shaft with a grip on it that I added a small weight (a couple of washers and a lag bolt) to the end. I only use it these days when I feel that I am getting lazy with my swing.

dgundling@verizon.net's picture

Submitted by dgundling@veriz... on

Thanks for your reply. I try the sing check every now and then. I have no trouble getting the swish almost anywhere near the center of the swing arc either before or after bottom. I tend to use my Speed Stik or the momentus swing speed gage more as they give a numerical feedback.

Dave Everitt's picture

Submitted by Dave Everitt on

The backswing is only 3/4 and upright but don't forget that there has to be enough turn to generate some torque. I like to initiate the backswing with the right shoulder blade pulling back, while maintaining very stable inner ankles. The upright part of the swing is guaranteed by the inward twist of the rear elbow in the master setup position. Instead of making the arms go fast I like to think of letting them swing fast. Relaxed arms will swing faster but the lower body has to be in a position to support the arm swing at the correct times. Some form of bump is necessary but I think that a lot more emphasis should be placed on the timing of the pivot. You can have all of the arm speed in the world and not be able to hit out of your shadow, if your pivot is poor. You can see from the videos that Don has a very dynamic pivot with active footwork and leg action. The pivot itself may be subservient to the arm swing but it does put the body into position, for maximizing the efficient use of arm speed. This last " TURN" part of the FUS can be freewheeling and aggressive, if a good and well timed pivot has been performed.

Kevins practice swing method is something that I use a lot before doing tee shots. Thanks to Kevin. It's a great idea that has helped me a lot over the last year.

After a lot of trial and error I found a swing/tempo thought that takes care of the bump, transition and forward upswing while allowing the arms to whip through.

After completing the BUS ( touching the left upper arm to my chin) my mantra is " A- B- Turn. " "A" triggers a lateral shift or pressuring of weight towards the left ankle. I find this a more consistent way to trigger the downswing than shifting the left knee towards the target because it is hard to overdo. Having a steady head is difficult if the knees have too much lateral motion.

"B" triggers the right ankle starting its roll toward the target and after that "TURN" is all about making an aggressive turn with the weight firmly on the front foot. The force generated by the armswing alone is not enough for me to get a good full T-Finish with both shoulders facing the target.

The work that I've done over the last year improving my pivot has added an easy 15 mph to my swing speed.

dgundling@verizon.net's picture

Submitted by dgundling@veriz... on

Thanks for the reply. I too have found out the importance of insuring that the pivot and swing are synched. I tend to set my feet too wide and this hinders the bump and weight shift until I catch myself. I have come to believe that the key to straight shots, with no wrist action, is how well the arms and pivot match. Set up has the club face perpendicular to the aim line with shoulders and arms also near perpendicular to the aim line. If pivot and arm swing are synched, one should come back to the ball with the club face perpendicular to the aim line. A near straight shot should result. If your arms are ahead of your body you will most likely hook. If your arms are lagging your body, you will likely hit a slice.

BTW, just found out that my index has nearly reached the max allowed. I am at 34.4. I reached that from a 23 in just over 4 years with PPGS.

Dale S.'s picture

Submitted by Dale S. on

Trying to use all your strength may be your problem. The harder I try to hit the ball using my strength, the worse I fare. My upper body is muscular, large by most standards. Unless I concentrate on swinging my arms freely, I can't generate any distance. If I try to muscle the club, I release too soon and can't accelerate through the ball. I also find it very difficult to get to a T Finish trying to hit rather than swing. The only muscles you want to be really using are your forearms and then only enough to keep the club on plane. Any tension in your shoulders will destroy your swing speed. Pay attention to the pros, some of those guys don't look strong enough to fight their way out of a paper bag, but they can hit the ball a mile. I saw Corey Pavin at the Memorial many years ago and I couldn't believe how small he appeared in real life and how far he hit a golf ball.

Being in shape will help, but concentrating on stretching and flexibility exercises will help more.

Keep trying, PPGS works as many have stated on this forum. When you warm up add a few swings concentrating on relaxing you shoulders and just free swinging, not hitting a ball.

Once it clicks, you'll love PPGS.

dgundling@verizon.net's picture

Submitted by dgundling@veriz... on

Thanks for your reply. I agree with you. Know any source that defines useful stretches?
After playing fast pitch softball for 45 years as a pure contact hitter, I do tend to hit rather than swing. As a matter of fact I made it a point last Tuesday when I played to try to ignore that there was a ball in my swing path. No noticeable results. I realize that with age my distance will decrease, However, I think losing 80 yards on my driver and about 40 yards on everything else in the 4 odd years that I have been trtying to use PPGS.is a bit excessive. It now usually takes me 3 shots to reach 200 yard par 3s. It is very rare for me to reach any hole in regulation.

dgundling@verizon.net's picture

Submitted by dgundling@veriz... on

Thanks for the reply. I have given up on the practice swing for the most part. I have found that I get more distance and a straighter shot if I just set up and swing However, I'll try your technique when I play next Tuesday.

Doc Griffin's picture

Submitted by Doc Griffin on

I would almost be willing to bet that lost distance comes from an inaccurate understanding of where the top of the backswing is this is something I see in all my travels that 99 percent of the golfers trying to do the PPGS SWING don't understand exactly where the club should be at the top

Dave Everitt's picture

Submitted by Dave Everitt on

Doc, what are the most common causes of and fixes for this problem? Most people who are students of the Surge swing probably have a good mental picture of where the club should be at the top. Is it simply a matter of not knowing where the top of the swing is or some mechanical swing issue?

I see that you are still selling the Swingrite on your website.

http://docgriffingolf.com/products/

Your description on the site states it is an excellent training device for plane, timing and release. I think that it is also useful for training to increase swing speed. I know that from reading through endorsements of this product on the web, that there are some coaches using it for this purpose. I've made steady progress over the last few years through the settings from #7 (73 mph) to # 4 ( 98 mph ).

geoff_farrar@hotmail.com's picture

Submitted by geoff_farrar@ho... on

Greetings form Australia,

I have been using the PPGS / Swing Surgeon swing for some time now, but have always been consistently inconsistent during most of my rounds, I always struggle to break 100. Usually a good stretch or two, with some absolute shockers. However, eveything finally came together last Saturday at my local course.

The result - a 12 over 83 off the stick for 49 Stableford Points (playing off a 25 handicap) - only the second time I have ever broken 90 since starting to play golf - the only other occasion was an 89 back in 1989.

Absolutely stoked with this outcome. So looking forward to my next round, which will of course be the big test.

Cheers,
Geoff

Doc Griffin's picture

Submitted by Doc Griffin on

Well, most people really don't have a good idea of where the club is at the top of the back swing.

If I'm looking at you face on, is the club perpendicular or more parallel to the ground at the top of the back swing?

Also, the swing rite can help increase club head speed by teaching the proper release. (also, most folks would not be able to use the swing rite due to the improper understanding of the issue that we are talking about in the question above)

Robert Fleck's picture

Submitted by Robert Fleck on

Your point is well taken, Doc. I'd wonder if Mr. Gunderling [edited to correct my misspelling] is trying to stop his back swing with the club pointing straight up from a face-on view, which would be about a 1/4 or 1/2 swing, not a 3/4 swing. Hard to generate any speed from there to impact. The club from face on needs to be over the body somewhere between 1 o'clock and two o'clock when you're looking at the golfer face-on.

Hal's picture

Submitted by Hal on

I understand thast mr Gunderling had about and hour and half discussion on the phone with Don yesterday (3-4 -2015. and they worked out a lot of his prblems on the phone. We' ll see over th next 2 weeks.
Hal

Brady's picture

Submitted by Brady on

To anyone that may be still watching this thread. It is with great sadness that I report Harold (Hal here on the site) passsed away last night from natural causes.

Russty Kiwi's picture

Submitted by Russty Kiwi on

Our deepest sympathy to Hal's family. Very sad news for us all. A long time friend of Surge's.

Kevin McGarrahan's picture

Submitted by Kevin McGarrahan on

Likewise, my deepest sympathy to Hal's family on their loss.

Robert Fleck's picture

Submitted by Robert Fleck on

Thanks for letting the Surge Nation know, Brady. So sad to hear of the loss of such a great guy. I never got to meet Hal, but I've enjoyed chatting with him on here for many years.

markyoung.email@gmail.com's picture

Submitted by markyoung.email... on

I noticed that it was 19 days between the last posts and now over a week since the current post. Sure hope that this is not a trend, as I so look forward to your posts Don, and get so much out of them. I'll take this opportunity to offer a recommendation: Don, if you could incorporate some actual training videos where you are working with a student, I think that would helpful. As always I'm very appreciative of the Dailies and want to see them coming with regularity and even progressing with new ideas and features. Love it Vertical.

Hal's picture

Submitted by Hal on

Mark, The dailies are always just that. They are snipets of information that are from 3 to 10 minutes of short instruction to clear up swing or set problems.Period.Those dailies are expensitive to make. Don shoots them in his back yard and sends them a company that edits them and prepares them to be shown as you see them. They are not designed to be a one on teaching tool.
Don has numerous videos at the top of the page to purchase that are excellent for one of one teaching tools.One of the best is the junior golf blue print video of 223 minutes of one on one teaching. I highly recomended it.
I love the dailies but I also own all the abouve videos.
Keep up the good work.
Hal

markyoung.email@gmail.com's picture

Submitted by markyoung.email... on

Hal,

I've been a paid member for four years, and bought the other training videos too and enjoy and use them. Thanks for pointing out the obvious and ignoring my real points. BTW, no need to defend Don, he doesn't need it.

bandman1's picture

Submitted by bandman1 on

Don,

Wow! This video is absolutely one of your very best. Having the toes point straight has never made sense to me and you have properly explained why it doesn't work.

Thanks so much for allowing me to receive your instruction.

Ed Robbins
Reidsville, NC