Avoid Over the Top

Thank you for the pointer to Bob Murphy.  I hope I can find something that he may have written on his golf swing.  You continue to impress the scope of your knowledge on golf, as well as your ability to come up with links to topics that people need.

Steve

You got called up to the big league today.  Nice job pal.  The regulars on this blog rock.  I think the Surge is just about ready to make you an honorary Surge Swing Instructor.  I have not played since Thursdays double round.  I was already going to try your idea of the underhanded pitch and the other idea you gave the other night.  What stuck in my mind was like I should almost try to hit the ball with the butt of the grip as I pull the club down when I start my bump.  Did I get that right?  If not, can you go over it again.  I hope to get some time at the range tomorrow.  I am going to a state hearing tomorrow afternoon to testify as an expert witness on an Environmental Assessment.  After all that legal mumbo jumbo, I will need to hit  some balls to clear my mind.  I should probably just walk into the hearing with my head already duct taped so those guys don't make it explode.

Proud of you pal.
Dick

"Skipping a rock" and "The Bump" are two things that I can acknowledge should be a critical part of the swing or swing thoughts, but I haven't been able to incorporate.  I tried a slight hesitation at the top of the swing (or "Lag").  Wow!  The acceleration has been significant.  More so with my irons - solid, straight and long.  Better with my driver, and excellent with three wood and hybrids.  I am an eleven handicap, and shot 76 and 74 the last two weekends with this as my swing thought after doing all the Surge setup.  Maybe your "Lag" is what helps us do "The Bump" or "Skipping a rock".....

Charlie,
I've done some experimenting since that post and concluded the results I got from a quicker tempo with the hybrid was more of a fluke than anything else. It's kind of like grooving one club at the range after you've hit a few times.

Yesterday I was more deliberate and found it much easier to feel the top of the BUS. I have to feel a "set" or hesitation at the top to get my best results. Once I feel that "set" it almost feels automatic that the transition starts with a slight move to the inside. I tried increasing tempo with one of my hybrids and a couple of fairway woods and found I made solid contact but was hitting right of target. I slowed my tempo and went back to straight shots with no loss of distance.

I've found a slower tempo is really more a personality trait and more natural for me. As I mentioned yesterday, narrowing my stance made it much easier for weight transfer and finishing the FUS.

I'm heading out again today to confirm what I felt yesterday. I just have to avoid "paralysis by analysis". As always, I'm a work in progress. ;0)

Lynn42

Surge,
Funny thing this "skipping a rock" was only this Friday I was surfing the net about "LAG"
which I'm told is the "Holy Grail" for power/club head speed/distance. In my youth I had little
sporting ability and find "skipping a rock" quite difficult. I did search Surges manual and found
nothing about "lag", but found heaps of tips on the golf channels. My game has improved since
following the PPGS, but has come up against a brick wall on power/distance. After a couple of
days introducing "lag", ie releasing the club ahead of the ball, found instant results and will
pursue this element even futher, any other comments would be much appreciated.
   
 

There is a fifth dimension beyond that which is known to man. It is a dimension
as vast as space and as timeless as infinity. It is the middle ground between
light and shadow, between science and superstition, and it lies between the pit
of man's fears and the summit of his knowledge. This is the dimension of
imagination. It is an area which we call the Twilight Zone.

The truth is out there!

That involuntary flex at the top is what we were discussing earlier gets Don's and DJ's (and, in fact, my) arm-to-shaft angle to around 90* at the transition and it should be maintained until release when the hands (for all clubs but the driver since that one you want to catch just after the nadir of the swing) pass the ball. We all have some lag. What you're discovering as the issue is controlling the release of the lag at the correct point in the swing. As I said, it's something I don't think about. My hands do it exactly where they have to do it physically in order to follow the path I've set for them and remain perpendicular to the ground. I don't actively think about it. I know myself, and if I had to THINK about the time to release, I'd be in deep doodley-doo-doo.

Unfortunately, I didn't get out to the range today to test my new lifting thoughts as my help didn't make it today. Hopefully things will work better tomorrow.

Hi Steve, I actually saw two objects when I paused the video at around the 52s mark.  One was about level with the tree in front of you and the other was almost directly underneath at about the level of your head. They seemed to come in from the right and flew towards and left of the camera.

Oh btw, the swing looks good and you really are knocking the crap out of the ball, 300 yards is pretty good going off the tee and kick in putts from deadly accurate approach shots is very impressive.

I have to do the same thing (slight hesitation)....it feels like a 3/4 second pause.  Friends say they can't hardly even see it.  If I don't do this I start the downswing with the shoulders instead of the hips!   

To me, the "bump" is the hard to find ingredient!

Thanks Boog. Missing that birdy at the last left me wanting. I'll tell you what though I really experienced the importance of the short game this morning. As Surge has said more than once we need to becomes short game wizards if we want to score well. After several saving up and downs and one putts I was reminded of how that can make up for mistakes on the way. I am still as dertermined as ever to improve my over all game and swing but I will practice with my scoring clubs more than ever.

I don't know how, Doc, but I understood every bit of that, I think

Doc, this is very, very interesting.  You couldn't be more accurate in this diagnosis.  I actually lost my left eye in a childhood accident.  I am totally right-eye dominant.  This also makes it difficult to take a complete turn on my backswing, though I'm well aware from the training here and elsewhere that a huge backturn isn't necessary.    I'm going to read the remainder of the comments here and will comment further.

Lynn

Why is it that I don't have "aha" moments, I only get to have "ah" moments.

I am stuck in the cheap seats section.
Dick

A couple of points to help become a short game wizard.

Own the short putts. Practice from 30 inches or so starting with a straight uphill and moving around in a circle each time you make one. Try to not roll the ball more than a foot past the ball. This will eventually help with alignment and confidence. Make all your putts straight by finding a spot to aim at and commit to rolling the ball over it. One to three feet works for me.

Learn a stiff wristed chip so it lands with less spin. Use every club in the bag but the driver and putter. The goal is to have it not check and release like a putt. Use the club that will land the ball comfortably onto the green a foot or two past the fringe.

Leaving the birdie 10 inches short is certainly annoying, but in a tournament sometimes a short breaking putt is not the time to blast away.

That 9 before 8 sounds like a great mantra for desert summer golf.

Hey Surge very timely video for me.  Today, before viewing the video about over the top, I was at the range working with my newly shorten driver.  The first half bucket of balls were fades to the right (I am right handed) and some slices.  I was hitting the ball very solid, but getting frustrated with the fades and slices as I was losing lots of distance.  So in my mind I figured I have to swing the club along the target line, not acrossed it.  So I tried what in my mind was "getting over the ball" more with my swing and making it as vertical as possible....... and it worked.  After keeping that in my mind I had very few fades or slices.  Then this evening I decided to see what todays video was about and booted up the computer........... whoa...... over the top, just what I was working on.  Now in my mind I am thinking I need to feel like I am getting over the ball to keep from slicing........ and your and Steve Smith's description of kind of like an underhand pitch is exactly what I was doing  with my right hand, but in my mind I was feeling like I was getting more over the ball.  Funny how different people minds "visualize" things in a different way, but they are really doing the same thing.

Thanks to Surge and Steve Smith, at least I know I am on the right track!

Jerry

Interesting analogy with the whip. Of course, when cracking a whip, as your wrist hits that point where it prepares to change direction, your body automatically shifts your weight in the same moment. I think the sensation or thought of a hesitation is actually ensuring, for you, that the lower body moves first to initiate the FUS.

Dick, You quitting Golf hahahahaha you are not a quitter sunshine. I have just had a mild session swinging an old Callaway War bird 9*driver. Just to internalize the whole routine again after nearly three weeks of not being able to lift my arms above chest height. Now? Yeeeeeeeehaaaaa! I can swing to the heavens without pain. So my next two weeks are going to be skipping rocks Unterseeboot style! Slowly,slowly catchee monkey. Perhaps that should be a mantra for ALL of us IMPATIENT to get out their and skin the monkey ASAP! We are our own worst enemies.
Loved the video today. Nice to know I share more than just a swing with Surge,ie, I have a school photograph taken about 1952. I am sitting crosslegged in a line in front of the teaching staff in a line of other pupils. My friends can pick me out instantly by my Chinese Squint even in the watery sunshine in UK.
Hope all is right with your health and the family Dick. Often in my thoughts. Now I can type again [couldn't even manouevre the mouse be damned]. Time permitting, I won't be such a stranger to the Surge Nation. Keep Skipping those UBoat rocks vertical and straight in Oklahoma. Take care of that raddled old frame of yours. Dragonhead, Diehard Surgite in China.

I even wear mine to bed, just in case I'm out in the sun in my dreams. LOL. I had cataract surgery in both eyes 2009, so I know the importance of Sun glasses. Wear them folks, Always. My problem now, with the artificial lens implants, I get too much glare in the bright light. It makes it hard to see the ball after about 150yds because of the glare, even with Sun glasses. Seeing where I end up, is becoming a nice surprise though, with the new sticks. Do any other, both eyes, cataract surgery folks experience this same problem. Please let me know I'm not the only one.

Nice results. I'd love to see video of your swing if you're up to putting some footage up on YouTube. I'm intrigued by your success with the hesitation. I'm guessing you were having trouble getting your weight to move to the front foot to initiate the bump while your arms were still moving up. However, I don't think that kind of hesitation is what Neil is referring to as lag. Lag is the amount that the club head trails the hands at the beginning of the FUS. Timing the release of that lag to coincide with impact is what generates the power.

Thanks for the reply on the manual question.  The confusion with the websites took me off track. I went to the new website and have purchased and downloaded the manual.

That's the fun balance between firm and tight. A tight grip tenses up the muscles, while a firm grip just gets them set to work.

T, I have edited and I am in the same boat so it must be maintenance day for disque.

I understand. I would love to see what a swing looks like where you sense this hesitation to see, in part, if there's really a stop in motion or if you are making a subconscious adjustment to keep yourself from jumping with the upper body. In other words, is that "moment of hesitation" a complete stop, or your equivalent of ringing the bell where your weight actually shifts to trigger your sense of hesitation (and the resulting lag when the club head keeps moving up while the body is saying it's time to go back the other way).

Twilight Zone stuff Steve, and so were the two objects too.......
But really your positions are looking good. That right arm position seems to be one of your keys to getting nicely vertical. Then you maintain those angles from the inside and straight back up. I like how you get that right elbow into your right pocket if we freeze frame it just before impact. Kudos on being recognised by Surge. It was only a matter of time :)

I am with the Surge on the sunglasses........... I even wear them on an overcast day, otherwise I squint!

Hi Steve
       As I dont how how to get a direct mail to reach Don I hope you dont mind I send this to you and hope you can maybe help me with my comments and questions..
I dont undertsand the theory that Don is saying the left leg should not straighten at impact as that does clear the hips very efficiently and it would be very difficult in my opinion if this natural reaction did not happen and try hitting a full blooded drive and keep your left leg bent at impact as this is very difficult to make in my opinion...

It would be really nice to see an action video of Don giving a Natural Uncut Golf Lesson on Video with students who have all the various faults that his daiy tips are covering as I am sure they would run into some natural diffictulities when teaching som eof his cures and this would make great viewing for many other golfers I am sure,,,,,,any chance of this happenning would be very much appreciated..
Hope you can help Steve and your comments and any others are very welcome.
Happy Golfing Everyone.
I

I spent a day with Greg about two weeks ago now. He made me 7 hybrid through PW to replace my irons.  Also shorten my driver which I am working on now and hitting better.  Greg is very proficient at Club fitting and I would recommend him highly.  Also it is great that he is a PPGS fitter, so he knows what we are trying to do with the swing.

Jerry

Steve, I am one of those. I rarely used cutting specs, and if I did have my flip downs on my hard hat, they were #4s. I could not weld with anything darker than a 10, or 11 if it was the mirror reflector type lens. I was fortunate to have the auto darkening hood for my last few years of work though. What a marvelous invention those are. I have a small 110v stick welder in the garage, but haven't had to use it since retirement. It is strange, but talking/writing about it, actually makes me miss it. I might have to weld something just for fun now. LOL

Just curious, I am getting the no activity in the Replies To Me link, on the Dashboard page again. Is it just me or everybody else as well. I've sent an inquiry to Disqus support.

I have rarely seen such an insightful statement as this;

If the shaft is not in line with the "wheel" of your swing less lag will
be created because manipulation HAS to take place to get it back where
it needs to be to hit the ball. This manipulation costs club speed,
hence costs lag."

The point is that the "wheel" or plane of the swing for the release needs to have the shaft on it as well as the ball. This lets  the centrifugal force straight line the arms and shaft so the force is thrown into the center of the ball. The centrifugal force will always straight line the arms and shaft directly proportional to the amount of force (lag) applied. I call this the release plane (RP.)

The beauty of the SSGS is a sum of some great ideas that lessen the torque that the rotational swing  creates. First is loading the back leg. Second is the lift that keeps the butt end out of the SBG. Third is the 3/4 turn backswing. These three points create a linear swing that lets the golfer swing into the FUS with accuracy.

Vertical equals accuracy. Rotational equals launch angle control. From my point of view accuracy is hugely more important. Look at Tiger who went from a more vertical swing under Butch Harmon and the flatter two plane move under Hank Haney. There was success with both because of great talent, but under Haney's tutelage the flatter rotational swing was extremely difficult to square the club face. I dare say if he would swing more like Don and DJ that he would be more efficient in the number of fairways and greens hit. IMHO

That is a good choice Tom. If anyone who is not sure about SSGS, but is very intrigued or interested in learning more. The best and least expensive way to do that is to buy the Foundations Manual, available through the Surges's Shop tab at the top of the this blog page. It's only $19.99 and it WILL tell you all you need to know. You might want some of the videos after that, which are available through the same tab.  Good luck Tom

Good points, and I think this points at something that might help with CharlieY's and my discussion of whether or not you need to focus on creating lag. I think the major difference is one of focus: I'm concerned only with swinging my hands along an arc around my neck while trying to maintain palms perpendicular to the ground. I don't think about my club head at all during the swing. I know that if I've set up properly, the club head will go where I want it to go so long as I keep my palms perpendicular and on that wheel around my neck. The release happens naturally at the bottom, since the hands have to roll over each other at that point in order to maintain the palms perpendicular. At any other point in the swing, releasing the arms gets them out of perpendicular.

Congrats, Steve, on the Surge nodding your way!!!!

Steve, I don't know why I never connected these dots before.  When I lost my left eye as a teen, my baseball playing days were short-lived due to depth perception problems, but over time I regained my abillity to field and hit, at least in slow-pitch softball.  But I adopted an open stance at that time (obviously my right eye wanted a better look at the pitch), and would then step into the pitch (squaring up) as it arrived. 

This is going to take some work to correct in my golf swing, but I really appreciate the observations here.  There's no doubt this is the root of the problem. 

Surge to Mr. Smith,
Excellent and fresh look at the skipping the rock or "submarine pitch" to help us come down at the right angles and keep our heads back and still until after impact. This one of the many key points I will be working on in the coming days and weeks. Thanks Steve and thanks Surge for continuing to help us focus on the important areas of improvement.
BTW Surge, thanks for the thought on Sunglasses. Living here in Las Vegas 'Sun City' you'll rarely catch me without my shades on. Mandatory eyeware. And as you said it is  as important as sun block.
PS. Hope DJ is recovering well. Send him our well wishes.

It's because you're right eyed dominant more than likely and want to see the target straight on.  There is no cure or drill other than to make yourself line up properly.  Just just have to DO IT.  That being said there are ways to make it easier to accomplish.  Primary culprit is the shoulders.  Place two clubs on the ground.  One at the ball, this is your target line, and one inside of that which will be your toe line.  Line up to the toe line, feet flare and then check your hips.  To do so, take a club and place it across your hips.  It should "lie" just like the toe line club.  Next, we're going to work on the shoulders.  This is where it is imperative to ensure that you have the front arm dominant.  I'm willing to be yours isn't.  To bring the front arm into a dominant position, relax and "pull" your right elbow in towards your and you should also notice that this helps turn your shoulders and start bringing them into square.  I do hope that this has made sense and helps.

Harry,

You can always send a note through Customer Support on the site and I'm sure they'd get it to Don. For Inner Circle members, we can see Don working with students on a lot of these issues in the Junior Golf Blueprint series. It is, indeed, extremely helpful. Maybe at a future golf school, Surge can get a vict...I mean, volunteer to do a video with working on some problem element. It would be a very cool thing to see.

As for the issue about the knee, the major point is not to snap it straight as that drives the hip back and around and puts enormous physical strain on the lower back, hip, knee, and ankle. The leg will straighten some naturally, but in a Swing Surgeon Swing, we don't want a huge lower body rotation leading the way. The lateral bump and associated secondary spine angle tilt clear the hips to allow the arms to fall into the slot and swing through. You can watch it in action nicely in the DJ Swings Through the Bag video, as he's wearing shorts so his knees are clearly visible. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...

Jim:  I think another way to visualize the same motion is that you basically are keeping your right hand (or left for you) very close to your body on the downswing and upswing.  If you think about swinging the club from "ear to ear" and keeping your left hand close to your body I think you'd be doing the same thing.  Your left hand goes down and up like a submarine pitch, or Surges skipping a rock, or me "getting over the ball" so you swing the club as vertical as possible. Give it a try and let me know how it goes.

Jerry

Funny thing is I had just been rewatching the PPGS Putting videos, and Surge gives the same explanation there. To me he was repeating himself. ;-)

Robert F--about thinking. I have been in athletics training for more than 40 years, and fortunately, I have a lot of experience in separating thinking from performing in my other sports, but not yet in golf. The problem with golf is that there is too much time available for thinking. I recall over-thinking in a crucial volleyball match against Purdue University in a regional semi-final and running a bad play. I was captain, coach, and setter, so all the blame was mine. Hopefully, I'll get to the point in golf where I can separate thinking from performing, but golf has a unique feature--golfers seem to be working on improving their swings all the time. We don't seem to be satisfied with our swings and just play.

Thanks Steve and Surge for the tip today about using the submarine pitch swing thought with the driver.   Tried it out at the range just a while ago with good results and I was especially hitting my fairway wood, hybrids and long irons very well.   I think it helped me stretch out my arms better through impact without bouncing the club head off the ground, as I sometimes do, and I was able to get onto the front foot better to pivot while my body rotated quickly after impact to face the target.  Thanks again, Craig

Are the greens looking any better at muni? I never seem to have the time for more than range work. I really need to get back on the course to be sure my course management skills don't atrophy. ;-)

Perhaps, I failed to explain properly. I am getting all replies, with email notifications, and at the two links of the dashboard, Everything, and You Only, on the RSS feeds, and blogs.  However, when I click on the Replies to You, link on the dashboard page it says, (You don't have any activity here yet). It was doing the same thing a week or so back, when others were experiencing the same situation. When I sent an inquiry to Disqus support at that time, they responded a day or so later, stating that they were doing maintenance on that section of the dashboard.  So I don't need anyone to send me a test reply. When it is corrected, ALL Replies to me will be displayed at that link, even those from several months ago, if I should desire to scroll down through them that far.

Robert, I'll give this as well as Doc's suggestions a shot.  Just knowing the root of the problem is huge.   Thanks all!