Swinging Up and Topping The Ball...Why?

Hitting down on the ball is a swing thought that I've never agreed with. It's one of the biggest myths in golf, and has been taught for years and years. Instead, I like to think of swinging up to the finish, while nipping the ball off the ground with minimal divots.

Bernard Feldman has questioned whether or not this works because he's topping the ball whenever he tries to swing up to the finish. So, today I'm going to expand on why hitting down on the ball is a common misconception in golf and why Bernard's most likely topping the ball.

Keep it vertical!

The Surge

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Daily video comments

Bernard:
Could not agree more with Surge on this. Keeping the body quiet is key. Takes practice, especially if you were a rotational swinger before.
Surgites:
Quick updates from weekend and Tuesday twilight-
Sat - Heather Highlands 46-44=90 Four three putts. Birdied #10 415 yds - good drive, smoked 3W, 30 ft putt. After round thought about putting - not hitting the trying to stroke it, caused poor contact, decel.
Sun - Greystone 47-44=91 Played 6400yrds, rain, 20-30mph wind, 65 degrees (July???) Had four penalty strokes. Some due to know knowing the course. No three putts, made clutch 12 ft par putt on 17 that won a bunch.
Tue - Maple Lane 38 on par 34 9. Chip in birdie on #4. Played 5 holes after: +3 with 4 one putts.
I am hitting it great just a few poor ones here and there.
DJ - good luck in Vegas, time to go all in and win.
Surge - Thanks for your great teaching. In 30 years of playing his is the best I have ever hit the ball, period. Every round has 10-14 holes where great things happen, just need to eliminate the big errors. Overall with the amount I am playing and practicing I am very pleased with my game.
To the Surgites who were asking about me getting a driver - still working on it. I might go see Greg Courtnay in Ionia if I can fit it into my schedule.
Thanks to you all - hit em well friends.
Jerry - Warren, MI

Reno, not Vegas

Jerry,

DJ is playing in the Reno-Tahoe Open this week. Tee time at at 3pm Eastern time. Surge is there in Reno. He just did a school the last few days and is spending time with DJ tuning his game now and in the coming days of the tournament. I know alot of people will be paying attention to the big names at the Firestone and also watching In Be Park go for number 4 at St. Andrews but there are 10 major tournament winners in the Open in Reno and lots of other top players there too so keep an eye on all three games:)

http://www.golfchannel.com/tours/pga-tour/2013/reno-tahoe-open/

Air times on TV
http://www.golfchannel.com/tours/pga-tour/2013/reno-tahoe-open/?t=airTime

Sounds like your game is coming along there. Way to go. Keep it up. I know you gotta get it while you can there with a limited golf season. Eliminating the big numbers. I get that. It is those bogies and doubles that wreck a good score. You are doing well focusing on the good shots and holes.

Down the middle!

Quiet Body

Just so Im not mis understading, we keep quiet to impact apart from the bump and arm free fall?

On a side note anyone know of any good streaming sites (legal - premium service) to watch tahoe open? I just got rid of cable as we are building a new house, and our free to air in Aus wont show it :(

free golf

try www.stopstream.com. not sure how they get away with it, but you can watch most sports for free on there.

Unavailable

Took a look at that web site. Looks super, only problem for us State side is it is unavailable for membership for the United States. Darn It:(

stopstream

yeh its a great site robert. like brady i watch a lot of cycling on it. sorry to hear you cant get it in the USA but must say i;m not a member and didnt have to fill any forms in. just logged in and tuned in.have watched a lot of USPGA golf via the golf channel on there. don;t suppose they are too happy about it and frankly i;m surprised they can get away with it.
cheeers richard in the UK

This is a cool site! Got

This is a cool site! Got some of my sport... Cycling!

I'll have to bookmark this page. I don't have a TV right now so whatever I can find on the net is good! :-D

how are you logging on?

Okay Brady,
When I went to the site it seemed you had to log on to watch anything, no?
To log on they seemed to require giving info and getting a password. When I followed protocal one of the requirements was 'which country'.
The USA was not listed. I did thier chat line and was told that unfortunately it was currently unavailable in the US. How have you been able?
Thanks for your help.

I just clicked a video and

I just clicked a video and started watching. But I have a European IP address.

ip address

Ahah!
As they say, "there in lies the rub if the green".

Brady

RM, You may or may not know it, but Brady and Kim moved to Germany a few months ago. I think that's what Don told me.
Hal

very cool

Thanks Harold. No I didn't know that. Germany, wow. I have only ever heard really positive experiences about living in Germany. Working in hospitality I meet people from all over the world and I have met many Germans visiting Las Vegas and many people who have lived there. Most mlitary men and women have told me that of all the places they were stationed, Germany was thier favorite. Likewise with visiting civilians. They are generally very friendly and kind toward Americans partly because of all we have done for them, particularly librrating them from the Nazis in WWII.
I would love travel there some day. A bucket list wish.

Hope you are well Hal and playing some golf.

Germany

Robert, I was in the Air Force in 1956 to 1960. In 1959 I went to Germany on tdy. We put on Air shows for the kings of state ETC. The German people we met were very friendly and out going.The beer they served was outstanding in taste and quality. I enjoyed my duty there. Then we went to Turkey for 4 weeks to put on more air shows. What a bummer in atmosphere and people.
I started back playing golf again and today I went over and did a video of my swing came back put it on V1home and discovered that I had some major flaws in my swing and setup. So now I have started over with my set up and swing.
Take care and still looking to the fall. Don and DJ working together in Reno is not working. He barely made the cut.
Hal
PS The cut moved and now he has missed the cut.

Don didn't stay in Reno. He

Don didn't stay in Reno. He came back home after the schools this week.

Willkommen! Come anytime.

Willkommen! Come anytime. We been here three months.

Yes

Edge,
Bump and arm fall........ quiet

It seems a little contradictory but not. Keep in mind that the bump should only be an inch or so. That's pretty darn quiet. Most of us over do it and move way too much. So while playing with this quietness I make no special effort to bump.For me it just happens. The quiet body for me is not only the lower body but allowing the arm drop you refer to with minimal exertion. We want the speed to happen at the bottom of tbe arch. Having enough power or zip has never been my challenge. Not being too aggressive from the top has always been the challenge. An image of In Be Park with seemingly no effort or hit in her move from the top is inspiring. Soft tempo is a good mantra for me.

Second that

I'd "thumbs up" Robert's comment if I could to avoid looking like I agree with everything he's saying here :) , but anyway I do concur, I couldn't have said it better. In fact, I have the same challenge from the top as well, tempo (from the start of the takeaway to the T-finish) often dictates whether or not I pull off a shot successfully. Sounds like I should check out Inbee Park's swing some more..

With regard to "from the top" issues, one swing thought I have been playing with lately with good success is the idea of tugging the two elbows in unison from the top of the BUS, which seems to help maintain palms-perpendicular and keep them parallel to the target line a little longer towards impact. The tug is so gentle it's almost like I'm letting them fall - when I execute it tends to produce great contact with plenty of zip on the ball and straight flight path.

Wrong Bump

I will have to check out that site.... Thanks for thoughts re - the bump. last night at the range I was doing what I thought was the bump and I was fat and thin, OTT slicing. I came back watched the vids read the manual and realised although I was bumping, I was moving the whole head and forcing my arms down, so I went into the yard and tried a slight hip bump with head staying back, and the arms dropped by themselves (actually laid off a tiny bit in FUS) and I felt more behind the ball at impact (almost leaning back - although this was only a feeling because I am use to being so darn ahead of the ball. This hanging back feeling also seems to help with swinging up. I was clearly mis understanding the weight shift and bump by thrusting everything forward onto the from foot.

.

That hanging back feeling

This is a very good way to describe the feeling of the lower body leaving the upper body and arms behind, that you have when the bump is done correctly. It's another way to describe the skipping rocks motion. A lot of people say that they do better when the bump just happens but I have to make it a very deliberate and controlled move with every swing, so the arms don't take over too soon. It is too easy to get lazy with the legs and footwork and let the upper body dominate the start of the FUS. The challenge is to be patient enough to keep the arms pacified, until the bump triggers the FUS. A swing thought that helps me ensure that the bump is a small and not overdone lateral move, is thinking of moving my tailbone towards the left heel. This works better for me than any other trigger that I've tried.

INBEE PARK

strange ! just as i was reading you comment i happened to be watching Inbee Park live in the British womens Open. she really has a remarkable swing !. looking at it its quite amazing how far the ball goes. she must have the slowest swing of anyone male or female. of course its deceptive , she obviously has the clubhead speed, where it matters, just before the ball, and just after. i seem to recall Don saying she has a pretty good PPGS, he,d just like to tweak a couple of things.

cheeers richard in the UK

Swinging up

So surge if we are swinging up with little divot, how does one compress the ball to create more backspin so the ball hits the green and stops or backs up?

It's the same whether you

It's the same whether you take a deep or shallow divot, the clubhead hits the ball first before taking the divot. Interestingly I find with the PPGS I get even more backspin (especially with short to mid irons) than I did with my old rotational carving-out beaver pelt divots swing.

Trajectory

Some of that sense of more spin may be that the PPGS tends to give a higher trajectory, as we're not artificially delofting the clubs. However, as we also tend to get a cleaner and more centered strike, there could be higher transfer of energy from the club to the ball, so more spin could result.

Makes sense to me

Yes that makes sense Robert, and I definitely get a higher trajectory than before which may permit greater spin-back when the ball lands. I was thinking the same thing about the lack of artificial delofting when I read your comments regarding speed. I would think the greater loft on impact would promote more spin.

Speed

The ball compresses by a combination of the nature of the particular ball and the speed of the club head striking it. Spin is created by the combination of the angle of approach and the loft of the club face and the speed of the club head and the "cleanliness" of the strike. If you're not compressing the ball, there's a good chance you're using too hard a ball for your club speed.

Got to go out and play last

Got to go out and play last Sunday with my beginner son he shot 93 breaking 100 for the first time and I shot 103 not touching a club sense last OCT. So I guess I have a lot to relearn with the swing. I have to play and learn how to play with a surgical shoe / boot on my left foot for the next 6 months to a year before my foot and leg or healed up Anyone with any suggestions on were to start ?

Steve , Steve were are you have not seen you on here lately.

Mike

Where to start

Mike,
Nice to hear from you. Regardless of your 'liability' might still be logical to start with the manual and review the lesson videos. Not sure how to advise your specific challenge but here's an idea:
Regardless of your desire to play anything like your free swinging pre injury time, make sure you are only 3/4's and take one more club than formerly for each shot. For example a typical pitching wedge might require a nine iron. A 7 iron shot may require a 6 iron, ect......
Make sense? So forget about what you "used" to do and play within the reality you have at the moment. One thing for sure, solid shots are going to require a really steady lower body and not swinging too 'big'. Trying to over come your challenge by swinging harder will likely give you shorter and crooked.
Go for precision not distance and take more club. Centered strikes on the ball with more club.
Just one idea for you. Good luck and thank God you can get out now. And with your son! What a blessing that can be Mike. Keep us posted.

These ideas from Surge may help.
https://www.swingsurgeon.com/daily-video-tips/physical-limitations

https://www.swingsurgeon.com/daily-video-tips/solution-when-you-can%E2%80%99t-shift

https://www.swingsurgeon.com/daily-video-tips/alternative-rolling-over-ankle

Thanks Robert

I have know expectations at this point with scoring. My home course was low to mid 70's not going to be able to shoot those scores right now. Distance is about
30 yards shorter at this point but I will get it back later. My wound Doctor Monday told me 6 months to a year to heal a 100 % I told him that I was done setting around doing nothing and would not do for another year they do not have a problem with me playing as long as it is dry out and not to over do it. My problem may the bump for a while having to watch how much weight I can get over to the left side going to the range to practice a little tonight I have been reviewing the manual and videos .

Mike

Cool

Okay Mike,

Be patient with yourself my friend and take it slow:)

Back in action

Good to see you back Mike, & playing golf again. Sorry to hear about your setbacks, but looks like your heading in the right direction now. I have been back playing golf for about a week & a half, with a moon boot, after two months off with a broken ankle & sprained knee. My boot is on the right foot & with the extra hight, is like playing a constant down hill lie. One thing that helps is a narrow stance, which makes the bump & transition easier, & stops over swinging. For your left foot, I would try flaring it to at least 45* to avoid over stressing that leg & foot. This also makes it easier to get to a good finish. Good luck with your recovery & it must be great to get out on the golf course again. It was for me after only two months.

Back in action

Rusty
Thanks for the kind words. Went to the range for a while tonight had fun and seen a couple of people I have not seen since last year. I talked to one of the pros that I know about my situation and he suggested taking a couple short game lessons chipping and putting and seriously practice that area r the next 6 months are year and not worry about the full swing to much at this point until I start getting my strength back I told him that was a good suggestion and I may and probably will take him up on it.

Mike

Hands at Impact

It seems that my hands do not return to square at impact but remain open, resulting in pushes and slices. Don says that they should naturally return to square. Anyone have any thoughts on why I am apparently an exception? Any thoughts on how to get my hands square? I'll note that I'm a lefty, have been following Don's approach for three years but still struggle with this problem. I'm suspecting that it is somehow connected to weight shift and doing a proper bump, but not sure. Help?

Randy F

Grip

Actually, the first thing I'd check is your grip. If the club is too much in your right palm (given that you're a lefty), it will return open, rather than square. Make sure you have the club in the crooks of the fingers, not in the palms. It may feel a little weird and stronger than you're used to, but this is an actual neutral grip.

Grip

Thanks, Robert. I'll give that a try. As a longtime baseball player, I struggle with some of the differences between holding a club and holding a bat. I appreciate the suggestion.

Randy F

Glad to help

It occurred to me largely because it is something I struggle with myself regularly. The way you phrased your question clicked the light switch in my brain about it.

PPG Swing in slow-mo

Purchased the PPGS package a couple years ago and have been watching your help videos but don't play that often.

Can't figure out how to play the videos in slow-mo. Would you please do a Swing Surgeon video showing the swing for an iron a hybrid and a driver in the step by step method but at 1/3 speed and hit a ball -does not matter the distance, just need to see it done-
Additionally would you film some front shot swings from a lefty, that would help us righties better visualize the swing more accurately or, if you could you do the slow mos shots filmed from the back-would help us right handers see the shape of the swing from our perspective.

When you do the front facing shots, the lefties get to visualize the swing best, because when you face the camera you are backwards to us righties-the lefties can just mimic the swing like looking in a mirror.
The video would be a good review before going out to practice or have it on the pad while practicing. Thanks

Slow motion playback of the

Slow motion playback of the purchased videos is most easily done if you download the video and play it on your computer. Your controls will be much better than anything we can offer with the on-demand playback over the web.

Videos

Palm04,

Much of what you requested can be found on line and also by creatively using the search box located on the top right hand side of this page under 'log in/log out'. Actually the best step by step for anyone really interested can and should be purchased. It is downloadable and most or all of it can indeed be viewed on a smart phone or i pad any time after that. I don't think your request or wish will be granted as you have presented it.
Remember, these daily videos are already very generous as it is. They are only meant to supplement sincere students who have either had in person lessons with Surge or his teaching staff or have learned the basics through the paid for videos and hard work and time put in. Owning all the videos myself and following Don Trahan for over four years now, I can tell you every dime spent was and continues to be well worth it. I can review lessons I own any time and frequently do. And yes they are awesome to review before going to practice and play.

https://www.swingsurgeon.com/shop/product-groups/all-instructional-materials
The fundamentals and the manual are the best place to start.

Edit: Opps! ********************
Sorry Palm04, didn't see your above post about purchasing the videos.
Please consider that when you read my above post.
Likely you are best off find a kid who has the computer tech ability to show you how to view the vids in slo-mo.

slow mo videos

I purchased the PPGS video package in 2008.

Would love to do as you suggest, but I have Win 7 movie player and also Adobe Flash, and do not not see how to view videos in slow motion, maybe I am missing something or need a different video viewer.

I guess I could just play the videos on tv with a big mirror leaning against a chair to get the reverse view! Thanks

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Swinging Up and Topping The Ball...Why?

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